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Ran Morrissett

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... under Architecture Timeline and Courses by Country.

I grew up in Richmond, Virginia and played The Old White Course at the Greenbrier in nearby West Virginia a grand total of ... zero times. That's unusual for someone who otherwise acts as a shill  ;) for Macdonald and Raynor's work. The reason? Though people raved about the resort, not a sole talked about The Old White, no historical buzz, no nothing. Now I understand why as only vestiges of Macdonald and Raynor's work remained. As George Bahto told me yesterday in regards to a 1992 visit that he paid there, "I was amazed at what had happened to the once notable high profile golf course. Nearly unrecognizable were many of the feature holes and their strategic bunkering as they had been modified over time in house or by visiting architects. It was as if some huge steam roller had flattened the entire golf course - fairways and greens. Very sad and a true loss."
 
As recently as 2002, instead of a 15,000+ square foot Biarritz green, there existed a straightforward par three to a conventionally bunkered 5,400 square foot green. What should have been an 8,300 square foot Redan green was half that size. Central hazards including the Principal's Nose and Hell Bunker were gone with trees defining tight corridors.  :'( In short, The Old White had become the sort of parkland course that you find throughout the northeast. Why bother traveling to play a similar brand of golf to that near your home?
 
Thanks to the restoration work accomplished from 2002 to 2006 by Lester George and the Greenbrier management team lead by then Director of Golf Robert Harris, The Old White once again is something special. I was there in late May and alas, the fescue hadn't come in yet. Here is a photo of the Narrows from 2008 that shows anything but a typical course.
 

 
This profile is different than any we have done as there are four examples (specifically, the 3rd, 7th, 13th, and 18th holes) whereby the impact of the hole location is shown clearly via compare/contrast photos. As evidenced at other Macdonald greens such as the back hole locations on the 6th at Piping Rock and the 15th at Saint Louis CC, certain hole locations impact a hole's daily scoring average by over half a stroke. That's a lot (!) and it is fascinating to see how a hole's complexion changes to such a degree, from being a potential birdie opportunity to becoming one of the hardest on the course for that day. 

No doubt the professionals will see a very interesting mix when they arrive to play the Greenbrier Classic when play commences on July 28th. Seeing classic design features beamed into television sets around the country is nothing but good for both the resort and for the game itself. Yes, with wet greens that held, the professionals had their way with the course last summer, capped off by Appleby's sparklingly 59. But even mighty Oakmont yields under such conditions, so I am especially keen to again watch it in two weeks time. The Old White was closed late last summer and the greens were regrassed with Tyee creeping bent which will give them the desired keenness and firmness to function properly. Barring torrential afternoon rains, firing at certain hole locations this year simply won't work as it did last year for the pros.

The nearby Homestead Resort in Virginia should take note of the work that was done here as their prized Cascades Course is sorely in need of similar help. For instance, while the creek was unburied at the 5th at Old White during the restoration,  the 5th and 6th at the Cascades have been compromised by seeing their creek piped underground. Just because William Flynn is underground doesn't mean his features should be too! 8) :P Bottom line: A feature rich course from the Golden Age is almost guaranteed to be more fun to play than any other course from any other design period. This holds true for The Old White now and much less so for The Cascades Course (despite the blue print provided to them on Flynn's features by Tom Paul and Wayne Morrison).
 
The Greenbrier's new owner, native West Virginian Jim Justice, has seen to it that The Old White is no longer Macdonald's most forgotten design. Even better, it is actually one of Macdonald's most accessible. Combined with Old Macdonald on the west coast, golfers can gain a full appreciation of Macdonald and Raynor's unique brand of strategic golf. Here's to the start of a promising re-birth of an American classic!

Cheers,

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Profile on The Old White Course at the Greenbrier is posted ...
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2011, 05:18:00 PM »
Fantastic write-up Ran and a wonderful job done by Lester. Even though the pros went low on it last Summer, it was one of the best tournaments of the year and brought attention to the architecture...for once!
H.P.S.

Tim Gavrich

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Profile on The Old White Course at the Greenbrier is posted ...
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2011, 09:38:47 PM »
Um, I believe the proper name of the golf course is The Old White TPC at The Greenbrier...









All kidding aside, a great profile of a course richly deserving that level of study and explication.  I am fortunate to have been able to spend some time on the grounds at The Greenbrier with teammates due to the generosity of the folks there who were kind enough to let us W&L golfing Generals play and practice there from time to time.  I'll never forget the day I played the Old White, on a perfect October day in 2009.
Senior Writer, GolfPass

Wade Whitehead

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Profile on The Old White Course at the Greenbrier is posted ...
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2011, 11:13:21 PM »
Ran:

Thanks for another fantastic review.

I'm glad you got to the course when you did.  I'm afraid we'll see changes due to the Tour presence that will have all of us pining for the current version of the course again.

WW

Lester George

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Profile on The Old White Course at the Greenbrier is posted ...
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2011, 02:09:03 PM »

Ran,

Very nicely done.  I think they will go low again this year.

Lester

Greg Tallman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Profile on The Old White Course at the Greenbrier is posted ...
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2011, 03:27:11 PM »
What is the deal with the horrendous flower and rock landscaping behind/right the 9th green?

Apart from that the course looks far better than I recall from years ago.

Lester George

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Profile on The Old White Course at the Greenbrier is posted ...
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2011, 04:24:26 PM »
Greg,

You are catching on to what Wade was talking about.  The new owner insisted that the course have "color" to the tune of over 90,000 square feet.  Two acres!

Lester

Greg Tallman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Profile on The Old White Course at the Greenbrier is posted ...
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2011, 06:12:06 PM »
Greg,

You are catching on to what Wade was talking about.  The new owner insisted that the course have "color" to the tune of over 90,000 square feet.  Two acres!

Lester

I can deal with color but slamming in a LINE of rock, flower, rock flower... is horrible.

JJ needs to better understands his limitations and invlving himself in the golf end of things is certainly not his strong suit. Neither is paying his contratcors and purveyors.

I hope I am wrong but strongy suspect his intent at the Greenbrier is a pump and dump. His inital investment would allow for such a scenario.

Lester George

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Profile on The Old White Course at the Greenbrier is posted ...
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2011, 05:13:08 PM »
Greg,

Not to dissapoint you but the rock was there for years before the Rhodedendron. 

I put the rock there in 2002 as a barrier from the road that is right behind the green.  My only other choices were a steel gaurdrail or a heavy wooden barrier.  I took the one I felt was the best "non-fence" looking thing so I am the guilty party on the fence.

The rest is pure JJ.

Lester 

Lester George

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Profile on The Old White Course at the Greenbrier is posted ...
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2011, 05:14:51 PM »
Greg,

BTW, I agree with everything else you said and you are closer to the answer than you may think.  Can't say anymore now though.

Lester

Greg Tallman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Profile on The Old White Course at the Greenbrier is posted ...
« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2011, 02:54:13 PM »
Sorry about the rock comments Lester... why not a rustic looking low profile wooden fence along the edge of the road?

For the life of me I cannot recall a roadway that close to the ninth green but it has been nearly 20 years since I last played there.

Has JJ had any thoughts on changes/additions to his other resort acquisition, Glade Springs?


Lester George

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Profile on The Old White Course at the Greenbrier is posted ...
« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2011, 03:05:53 PM »
Greg,

Don't apologize.  I just wanted to set the record straight.  If you look at Google earth you can see how close the road is.  A "low profile" barrier was discussed but the issue was trying to prevent cars from coming on the golf course (safety, vandalism).  The wooden structure would have looked like a wall to me.

Call me if you want to discuss JJ's thinking on the rest.

Lester

George Freeman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Profile on The Old White Course at the Greenbrier is posted ...
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2011, 01:47:25 PM »
Ran:

Thanks for another fantastic review.

I'm glad you got to the course when you did.  I'm afraid we'll see changes due to the Tour presence that will have all of us pining for the current version of the course again.

WW

Can anyone elaborate on the changes??

Hopefully it's only lengthening and doesn't screw with the greens or bunkering (or width of the fairways).  However, I'm skeptical...
« Last Edit: July 21, 2011, 01:49:15 PM by George Freeman »
Mayhugh is my hero!!

"I love creating great golf courses.  I love shaping earth...it's a canvas." - Donald J. Trump

Lester George

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Profile on The Old White Course at the Greenbrier is posted ...
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2011, 04:55:21 PM »

George,

I hate to dissapoint you but it is what you said and more. 

Lester

Greg Tallman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Profile on The Old White Course at the Greenbrier is posted ...
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2011, 05:21:19 PM »

George,

I hate to dissapoint you but it is what you said and more. 

Lester

Crazy, Could have gotten what they wanted by simply combining the Greenbrier and Meadows courses whiich occupy plenty of great terrain and come up with the tour normal 7500 yard "test" while also keeping your version of Old White and adding a "family" nine holer type of course. Maybe I could cobble together a group and fast track the "next owner" of this great resort. So much potential to do things that make sense and fit all needs rather than ending up with 3 really average and mundane golf courses. Sickening.

George Freeman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Profile on The Old White Course at the Greenbrier is posted ...
« Reply #15 on: July 21, 2011, 05:35:39 PM »

George,

I hate to dissapoint you but it is what you said and more. 

Lester

Lester - that is unfortunate.

Do you know when they are starting the work?  Or has it already begun.  I'd love to get down there to see your work before they blow it up.
Mayhugh is my hero!!

"I love creating great golf courses.  I love shaping earth...it's a canvas." - Donald J. Trump

Lester George

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Profile on The Old White Course at the Greenbrier is posted ...
« Reply #16 on: July 21, 2011, 06:48:50 PM »
George,

It is already done.  Hope they don't do anymore.  Call me if you want details.  Can't discuss here.

Lester

Greg Tallman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Profile on The Old White Course at the Greenbrier is posted ...
« Reply #17 on: July 25, 2011, 06:56:20 PM »
George,

It is already done.  Hope they don't do anymore.  Call me if you want details.  Can't discuss here.

Lester

Lester,

Just listening to an interview with JJ... "narrowed the fairways, nice thick rough, firm greens, fast greens... I mean fast now"

Brilliant!

Tim Gavrich

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Profile on The Old White Course at the Greenbrier is posted ...
« Reply #18 on: July 26, 2011, 11:25:54 AM »
They also appear to be misreporting the yardage of the golf course by 200 yards!  PGATour.com lists it at 7,229 yards, and then they list the individual hole yardages, which add up to 7,031.  WTF?
Senior Writer, GolfPass

Lester George

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Profile on The Old White Course at the Greenbrier is posted ...
« Reply #19 on: July 26, 2011, 12:13:01 PM »

Tim,

So typical.  7,031 was last years yardage. 

Lester

Jeff Taylor

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Profile on The Old White Course at the Greenbrier is posted ...
« Reply #20 on: July 26, 2011, 03:25:44 PM »
So is Ran's review outdated already?

Lester George

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Re: Profile on The Old White Course at the Greenbrier is posted ...
« Reply #21 on: July 26, 2011, 03:40:09 PM »
Rans review is not outdated.  Whatever Tim saw the yardage of 7,031 is outdated.

Lester

Jeff Taylor

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Profile on The Old White Course at the Greenbrier is posted ...
« Reply #22 on: July 26, 2011, 03:56:09 PM »
I was referring to the narrowing of fairways thus reducing angles into the greens.
JT

Ray Cross

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Profile on The Old White Course at the Greenbrier is posted ...
« Reply #23 on: July 26, 2011, 05:56:28 PM »
Sorry that I had not seen these photos/changes before....they really change the Old White from what I knew in the 80's and early 90's.
Old White was my preferred course of the three then even without these restorations and Lester and Robert should be very proud of the result of their research and implementation of their plan.
Was any work ever done to the Greenbrier Course to restore some of the M/R features thst Jack may have removed?

Ray Cross

Lester George

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Re: Profile on The Old White Course at the Greenbrier is posted ...
« Reply #24 on: July 26, 2011, 06:01:20 PM »
Ray,

Sadly no.  The M/R course that was "course #3" was truly unique and if it was restored would be one of the most visually appealing and strategically intriguing of all M/R courses.  It was finished by Banks and it was really out there.

Lester

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