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Matthew Rose

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Re: US Women's Open - No threads? No interest?
« Reply #50 on: July 13, 2011, 04:43:00 PM »
Entering into really delicate territory here...

I suppose the Korean "problem" may partially be the result of there simply being a lot of one-hit wonders. To the untrained eye, you see a 20 year-old kid come out of nowhere to win the single most important women's golf tournament on the tour, and then for the most part you never hear from them again. Has Birdie Kim won anything else?

I hope Ryu wins again and soon.

The LPGA needs dominant players to succeed. It will breed familiarity. I think regardless of where that player comes from, you will see the masses come out. More than anything else, people just love a winner.

I don't want to make this sound remotely jingoistic against Korean players or women. I feel this way about men's golf and American golf too. We're going back to Sandwich this week; no disrespect to Ben Curtis but does anyone want to see that happen again? Never played in a major, never played links golf, and he's "the champion golfer for the year".

The Women's Open, and the majors in general, just don't see that prestigious to me when some 20 year-old can come out of nowhere and win it and then never win anything else. I think the events become a little bit watered down.... suddenly the perception is that maybe they aren't as hard to win as they should be.

I've watched the US Women's Am the last few years, and the one thing I have noticed is that the girls get younger.... and younger.... and younger. It might as well be the US Junior. It's high school sophomore vs. 8th grader in the quarterfinals. I'm troubled by this. I don't if that's because I'm not that young anymore and I didn't start playing my best golf until I'd turned 30. Maybe I'm just turning into a jaded old fart.

The funny thing is, I feel completely the opposite way about tennis. I find the same guys winning all the events has actually made it less fun to watch, for me anyway.
American-Australian. Trackman Course Guy. Fatalistic sports fan. Drummer. Bass player. Father. Cat lover.

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: US Women's Open - No threads? No interest?
« Reply #51 on: July 13, 2011, 04:47:51 PM »
ok there is some interest ....

I think the women's game is interesting because:
- they can not dominate the course, because of length and (often not noticed) height of their game's geometry
thus:
- a greater segment of the male golfing population can more easily relate to their game and how they should play the course
- more of the GCA elements come into play

I know this is the theory, but I wonder if it isn't an urban legend of sorts. I can relate to a bomber a heckuva lot easier than I can relate to someone who hits 90% of her fairways. Of course, I can't relate to a bomber who shoots 63 at all....

-----

In the bigger picture sense, what I look for in any sport is a story, a compelling reason to watch. That's why I still like Tiger, in spite of everything else. That's also what I hate about The Big Break - sports is already the ultimate reality TV, why cheapen it?

I don't watch much of either the men or the women anymore, outside of majors (for women, it's really only the two opens). They just don't hold my interest.

-----

Interesting post, Matthew. In many ways, I think you hit on both the advantages and disadvantages of the difficulty of golf at the highest level. That's really what makes/made Tiger unique and compelling - he completely warped the standard, so much so that great golfers of his era will never be given the respect they deserve, imho.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: US Women's Open - No threads? No interest?
« Reply #52 on: July 13, 2011, 04:54:32 PM »
ok there is some interest ....

I think the women's game is interesting because:
- they can not dominate the course, because of length and (often not noticed) height of their game's geometry
thus:
- a greater segment of the male golfing population can more easily relate to their game and how they should play the course
- more of the GCA elements come into play

A negative is the pace of play .... usually awful

Carl-I think you make a good point in how men can more easily relate to their game and the way they get around the course with distances and the clubs they pull. I don`t notice them being any slower than the men.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2011, 05:11:47 PM by Tim Martin »

Richard Choi

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: US Women's Open - No threads? No interest?
« Reply #53 on: July 13, 2011, 05:08:41 PM »
I don't buy into "relatable" theory.

I watch basketball because there are 6'9" guys flying around the basket and can hang in the air for what seems like minutes. I watch football because there are 300lb guys who can move faster than me. I watch tennis because they can bomb 150mph serves down the line.

I don't want to watch "people like me". At that point, I rather just go out and play myself. I want to watch people who are extraordinary.

This is primarily why women's sports have such hard time attracting audience. The same goes for any minor league teams. Golf is not unique.

Tennis is about the only women's pro sport that does pretty well primarily due to attractive nature of the players - guys don't get tired of watching fit and athletic young women in short skirts. But that is a tough way to run a pro league for anything but tennis.

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: US Women's Open - No threads? No interest?
« Reply #54 on: July 13, 2011, 05:13:29 PM »
Tennis is about the only women's pro sport that does pretty well primarily due to attractive nature of the players - guys don't get tired of watching fit and athletic young women in short skirts. But that is a tough way to run a pro league for anything but tennis.

Or beach volleyball... :)

Nice post.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: US Women's Open - No threads? No interest?
« Reply #55 on: July 13, 2011, 05:20:27 PM »
guys don't get tired of watching fit and athletic young women in short skirts. But that is a tough way to run a pro league for anything but tennis.

Have you even watched women's golf? ;)
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Colin Macqueen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: US Women's Open - No threads? No interest?
« Reply #56 on: July 13, 2011, 05:27:17 PM »
Richard,
That is quite different to the way I feel about watching golf.
I am such a tragic that I can sit on our golf club verandah, sip on a cold beer as the sun dips and happily watch every group coming down the eighteenth fairway and onto the green. Even though some cannot hit a golf ball that well the competitiveness is there. Oft-times there is as much tension and suspense as to whether a score of 6 or 7 will take the hole versus a birdie to par. I just love the human scale of these tussles as much as the heroic nature of the first-class golfers carving out low scores.
I agree with the sentiment that ladies golf has appeal and interest as for me the architecture seems to be more in play and the distances that they hit the ball are not beyond my ken.

Cheers Colin
"Golf, thou art a gentle sprite, I owe thee much"
The Hielander

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: US Women's Open - No threads? No interest?
« Reply #57 on: July 13, 2011, 05:39:43 PM »
I don't buy into "relatable" theory.

I watch basketball because there are 6'9" guys flying around the basket and can hang in the air for what seems like minutes. I watch football because there are 300lb guys who can move faster than me. I watch tennis because they can bomb 150mph serves down the line.

I don't want to watch "people like me". At that point, I rather just go out and play myself. I want to watch people who are extraordinary.

This is primarily why women's sports have such hard time attracting audience. The same goes for any minor league teams. Golf is not unique.

Tennis is about the only women's pro sport that does pretty well primarily due to attractive nature of the players - guys don't get tired of watching fit and athletic young women in short skirts. But that is a tough way to run a pro league for anything but tennis.

Richard,

A triple Amen to this one!!  That's exactly why I like to watch "pro" sports and little else.  (Division I Basketball and Football being the  two non-pro sports that breaks this mold for me.)

If I want to see what a 210 yard 5w looks like...I'll just go to the range.  I tune into to TV to watch the pros hit that same club at some ridiculous yardage, from some ridiculous lie, to some ridiculous pin position.

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: US Women's Open - No threads? No interest?
« Reply #58 on: July 13, 2011, 05:41:47 PM »
...
If I want to see what a 210 yard 5w looks like...I'll just go to the range.  I tune into to TV to watch the pros hit that same club at some ridiculous yardage, from some ridiculous lie, to some ridiculous pin position.

You're watching TV. There is nothing to see there. Turn off the sound and you couldn't tell 210 yards from 310.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Rick Shefchik

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: US Women's Open - No threads? No interest?
« Reply #59 on: July 13, 2011, 05:42:17 PM »
I don't buy into "relatable" theory.

I watch basketball because there are 6'9" guys flying around the basket and can hang in the air for what seems like minutes. I watch football because there are 300lb guys who can move faster than me. I watch tennis because they can bomb 150mph serves down the line.

I don't want to watch "people like me". At that point, I rather just go out and play myself. I want to watch people who are extraordinary.

This is primarily why women's sports have such hard time attracting audience. The same goes for any minor league teams. Golf is not unique.

Tennis is about the only women's pro sport that does pretty well primarily due to attractive nature of the players - guys don't get tired of watching fit and athletic young women in short skirts. But that is a tough way to run a pro league for anything but tennis.

Richard,

A triple Amen to this one!!  That's exactly why I like to watch "pro" sports and little else.  (Division I Basketball and Football being the  two non-pro sports that breaks this mold for me.)

If I want to see what a 210 yard 5w looks like...I'll just go to the range.  I tune into to TV to watch the pros hit that same club at some ridiculous yardage, from some ridiculous lie, to some ridiculous pin position.

Another plus for women's tennis is that they don't overpower each other. The game looks more like tennis was supposed to look like.
"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

Richard Choi

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: US Women's Open - No threads? No interest?
« Reply #60 on: July 13, 2011, 05:42:50 PM »
guys don't get tired of watching fit and athletic young women in short skirts. But that is a tough way to run a pro league for anything but tennis.

Have you even watched women's golf? ;)


Golf Hot 8 would be Tennis Hot 5. They are not on the same scale.

Colin, I like to sit and watch players come in or watch little leaguers play too. That does not mean that I am going to drive 1 hour away and pay $50/ticket to watch less than extraordinary players. I don't even watch minor league sports on TV. Just because it is something that a few people will watch now and then does not mean that it will be successful as a pro sport.

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
« Last Edit: July 13, 2011, 10:07:37 PM by Mike_Young »
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Richard Choi

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: US Women's Open - No threads? No interest?
« Reply #62 on: July 13, 2011, 07:57:49 PM »
:(
« Last Edit: July 13, 2011, 09:59:21 PM by Richard Choi »

Carl Nichols

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: US Women's Open - No threads? No interest?
« Reply #63 on: July 13, 2011, 08:25:47 PM »
I paid attention long enough to bet the field against Mac's choice of Yani Tseng, and to know that I won.  Where did that thread go?

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: US Women's Open - No threads? No interest?
« Reply #64 on: July 13, 2011, 08:46:51 PM »

Mike,


« Last Edit: July 13, 2011, 10:06:59 PM by Mike_Young »
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: US Women's Open - No threads? No interest?
« Reply #65 on: July 13, 2011, 09:53:32 PM »
Mike, as a proud Korean...

Fuck you, you racist pig.

Richard,  

As an inveterate Obama supporter screw you and your anti-Obama poster shot you racist pug.

And that's not a typo.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2011, 09:57:45 PM by Terry Lavin »
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Richard Choi

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: US Women's Open - No threads? No interest?
« Reply #66 on: July 13, 2011, 09:58:55 PM »
Terry, whatever floats your boat... go nuts.

Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: US Women's Open - No threads? No interest?
« Reply #67 on: July 13, 2011, 10:13:06 PM »
Terry, whatever floats your boat... go nuts.

Don't boat barely float but sure can smell a goat.
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

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