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Brock Peyer

  • Karma: +0/-0
A US Open Rota
« on: July 11, 2011, 09:40:38 PM »
My Dad and I were talking courses on the phone the other day and he proposed an idea that I must admit that I can't find much fault in.  He proposed that the USGA use a Rota like the R & A and hold the US Open over 4 courses:  Shinny, Oakmont, #2 and Pebble.  I love my Dad but I don't always agree with him but I must admit, I can't find much fault in the idea.

Granted, I know the reasons for hosting it elsewhere, but I think it was/is a good idea.  Too bad it isn't feasible.

Keith OHalloran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A US Open Rota
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2011, 09:44:09 PM »
Brock, I have a Major East Coast Bias, but why exclude Winged Foot?

Bill Gayne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A US Open Rota
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2011, 09:51:05 PM »
A rota works for the British Open because geographically Great Britain is a small country, the championship is limited to links courses, and the rote is tied to tradition. The US Open should not be constrained to only a limited selection of courses. It's a big country with great courses in most parts willing to host America's national championship.

Greg Chambers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A US Open Rota
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2011, 10:41:10 PM »
The US already has a "championship" rota.  It's called the FedEx Cup.  Let's not drag the US Open down to that level, thanks.
"It's good sportsmanship to not pick up lost golf balls while they are still rolling.”

Matthew Rose

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A US Open Rota
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2011, 10:57:18 PM »
I think it would be boring if they did that.

One of the things I enjoy is the randomness of the venue selections and the anticipation that comes each time the USGA plans to announce a future host.

They more or less have a semi-rota already anyway, with Oakmont, Shinny, Pebble, Olympic, Bethpage, et al.

American-Australian. Trackman Course Guy. Fatalistic sports fan. Drummer. Bass player. Father. Cat lover.

Mark Chaplin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A US Open Rota
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2011, 10:51:05 AM »
I cannot imaine the members of Oakmont and Shinnecock agreeing to that. Currently the British rota includes TOC every five years, the remaining clubs roughly once in ten years. For the member clubs Hoylake, Troon, Muirfied, Birkdale and Sandwich that is plenty enough disruption.
Cave Nil Vino

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A US Open Rota
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2011, 11:14:03 AM »
I find I enjoy watching the US Open (or the PGA) played on courses that either haven't hosted an event for a while, or are first time hosts. It's more fun seeing how the course will be played by the pros for the first time, versus watching them play Pebble Beach for the 1000th time (add that Pebble already has a tour stop).

If anything, I think they need to space out some of the old line clubs or repeat hosts. Why visit Pebble every 9-10 years? Hosting the Open at Bethpage 7 years apart was a clear mistake. I think Shinnecock has it right waiting 15 years in between events...it makes you appreciate the course even more.
H.P.S.

Sven Nilsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A US Open Rota
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2011, 11:26:19 AM »
Regarding the disruption for the members of the British courses noted, is there a difference between the setup processes for Open courses on either side of the pond?  Do the American courses cause more disruption to member play by having to spend the time and resources to match the USGA's requirements?  I'm sure some work is done prior to the British Open, but I it satisfies my romantical view of golf in the British Isles to think that they just "roll the course out of bed" and its ready to go.
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Carl Rogers

Re: A US Open Rota
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2011, 11:36:14 AM »
On the US Open Rota Theme .... Why doesn't the Chicago area have a first class, world class course? 
Erin Hills is too far away.
Medinah is too one dimensional.

Jay Flemma

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A US Open Rota
« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2011, 11:52:29 AM »
I agree - to an extent.  There should be more courses in your list - good ones - like Oakland Hills, Winged Foot, etc.  But there should be room to explore new venues as well and resurrection of older ones that are excellent as well.  I think the USGA does a fairly good job, although every once in a while you scratch your head.

I also don't like this delineation between  "U.S. Open courses" and PGA courses.  Oakland Hills deserves a U.S. Open.
Mackenzie, MacRayBanks, Maxwell, Doak, Dye, Strantz. @JayGolfUSA, GNN Radio Host of Jay's Plays www.cybergolf.com/writerscorner

Bill Shamleffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A US Open Rota
« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2011, 11:56:22 AM »
I think the USGA already has a very unofficial and fluid U.S. Open rota.

They currently want to hold periodic Opens at Shinnecock, Winged Foot, Bethpage Black, Oakmont, Pinehurst #2, Pebble Beach, and Olympic.

Next they have some interest in possibly revisiting Oakland Hills, Oak Hill, Southern Hills, Baltusrol, Congressional, Hazeltine, and possibly very occasional visits to Merion & The Country Club.

Finally, they can not figure out what to do about getting an Open to Chicago or at least the greater Chicago area, and possibly elsewhere in the Mid-West.  They are also open to exploring other locations on the West coast.

A variety of issues will cause fluctuation among this rota.  These may include the course hosting the PGA or other tournament, the current membership not wanting the open, logistics complications, revenue limitations, etc.  But, although one of the above courses may fall out of the active rota, they may still remain as future possible hosts once the issues can be worked through.  However, it does appear that Inverness and Cherry Hills have likely dropped out of US Open consideration.

In addition, it appears the USGA has no interest in being in the South other than Pinehurst #2.  Southern Hills to Congressional would appear to be as far south as they want to take the Open (east of the Rockies) other than Pinehurst.

Any location outside of these parameters will be very rare.  Only 7 courses have hosted the US Open since post-WWII that are not among the 17 courses named above and that are outside of Chicago.  Interestingly there will be two visits to courses during the upcoming decade outside of these parameters (Chambers Bay & Erin Hills).

So over a 74 year period (1946-2019) only 9 courses will host the US Open other than the 17 courses listed above and outside of Chicago.  That is a rota is about 13-17 courses, + a Chicago course, + 1 or 2 others per decade.
“The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, but that's the way to bet.”  Damon Runyon

Howard Riefs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A US Open Rota
« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2011, 11:57:40 AM »
On the US Open Rota Theme .... Why doesn't the Chicago area have a first class, world class course? 
Erin Hills is too far away.
Medinah is too one dimensional.

Butler National and Chicago Golf Club aren't too shabby.  But neither is hosting an event anytime soon.  
"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke

Sven Nilsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A US Open Rota
« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2011, 12:13:28 PM »
On the US Open Rota Theme .... Why doesn't the Chicago area have a first class, world class course? 
Erin Hills is too far away.
Medinah is too one dimensional.

Butler National and Chicago Golf Club aren't too shabby.  But neither is hosting an event anytime soon.  

On the weekend of the US Open, Butler sets up the course as if they were the host.  At around 7500+ with longer rough and quick greens, its a pretty darn good test, add in some vicious pin placements and you're looking at a serious challenge.  Par 3's play at 227, 214, 193 and 199, there are 6 par 4's over 450 and the par 5's tip out at 563, 623 and 638. 
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A US Open Rota
« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2011, 12:16:22 PM »
On the US Open Rota Theme .... Why doesn't the Chicago area have a first class, world class course? 
Erin Hills is too far away.
Medinah is too one dimensional.

Butler National and Chicago Golf Club aren't too shabby.  But neither is hosting an event anytime soon.  

Carl,

If I were a betting man, I would bet that Olympia Fields will get another Open after they host the 2015 Us Am. Butler is constantly rumored to be considering letting in women in order to get an Open (thanks to the idiot "journalist" that is Ed Sherman), but to be honest I think OFCC is a better place to hold the tournament for a variety of reasons.

Howard,

I'd be afraid to see what the top players would do to CGC in a stroke play event.
H.P.S.

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A US Open Rota
« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2011, 12:18:19 PM »
Oakland Hills deserves a U.S. Open.

Sorry Jay, how does it deserve an Open? 
H.P.S.

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A US Open Rota
« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2011, 12:23:13 PM »
Next they have some interest in possibly revisiting Oakland Hills, Oak Hill, Southern Hills, Baltusrol, Congressional, Hazeltine, and possibly very occasional visits to Merion & The Country Club.

I'm hoping that the ~2023 Open goes back to TCC with a smaller event like at Merion in 2013.
H.P.S.

Jay Flemma

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A US Open Rota
« Reply #16 on: July 12, 2011, 12:23:46 PM »
It's an unbelievable golf course - excellent in every way - great green contours, great fairway undulations, terrific terrain for golf, and it has plenty of room to hold everything necessary to support the logistics.  I's long enough, it's tough enough, and it's got excellent architecture, as well as being able to handle the logistics.  I was a doubter until I went and saw it and now I'm a believer. Oakland Hills is much better than every other major venue I've seen except Oakmont and Augusta and it's tied with Winged Foot. (IMHO)
Mackenzie, MacRayBanks, Maxwell, Doak, Dye, Strantz. @JayGolfUSA, GNN Radio Host of Jay's Plays www.cybergolf.com/writerscorner

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A US Open Rota
« Reply #17 on: July 12, 2011, 12:28:11 PM »
The idea is good for at least one reason. It would stop the set of circumstances that led to a man going bust, like what happened at Erin Hills, from ever happening again. If you're going to banko in the golf business, the USGA should not be the devil on the shoulder.

"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Anthony Gray

Re: A US Open Rota
« Reply #18 on: July 12, 2011, 12:31:23 PM »


  I like it as is. The PGA took a great step by including CB. I would like to see a bold move like that for a US Open. Kiawah is going to be a nice change of pace.

  Anthony


Carl Rogers

Re: A US Open Rota
« Reply #19 on: July 12, 2011, 12:51:16 PM »
I thought that Olympia Fields was too short .... maybe not?

I thought Butler was simply not distinguished or interesting enough .... maybe not?

For a major metropolitan center, it seems as an outsider (me) that Chicago is golf defecient ... maybe not?

Why is the USGA not interested in Riviera?  Call the first hole a par 4.

Michael Dugger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A US Open Rota
« Reply #20 on: July 12, 2011, 01:03:36 PM »
For all intensive purposes, they already do this.

Winged Foot
Baltusrol
Shinnecock Hills
Oakland Hills
Pinehurst #2
Pebble Beach
Southern Hills
Bethpage Black
Congressional
Olympic Club

These courses seem to make up the core.

Of course places like Torrey and Oak Hills are thrown bones.  Some new blood coming up with Chambers Bay and Erin Hills
What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

Paul OConnor

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A US Open Rota
« Reply #21 on: July 12, 2011, 01:17:22 PM »
Which of these Chicago area contenders will be the next to host a PGA tournament? Or a US Open?

1. Butler National
2. Chicago Highlands
3. Conway Farms
4. Medinah #3
5. Olympia Fields North
6. Rich Harvest Farms

Cog Hill not included because they will be hosting the BMW this fall.  And Medinah's 2012 Ryder Cup not included.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2011, 01:22:24 PM by Paul OConnor »

Phil McDade

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A US Open Rota
« Reply #22 on: July 12, 2011, 01:19:11 PM »
I think the USGA -- probably within 25 years -- will move to something along the lines of an all-public, designated major-championship course line-up that essentially ditches the private clubs. It's already starting to do this with Chambers Bay and Erin Hills (and arguably Torrey Pines), two courses designed with lengthening and hosting a major in mind. Longtime clubs accustomed to hosting the US Open will rebel (TCC at Brookline already has, others will follow) at the notion of shutting down and altering their course, along with the added hassles of hosting a national, televised event. Golf ball/club technology has a lot to do with this, and will be the rare course -- maybe Oakmont, but not too many others -- that in 20 years will still be able to/want to host the US Open.

We currently have a de facto rota, and we will 25 years from now, but it will look a lot different.

Phil McDade

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A US Open Rota
« Reply #23 on: July 12, 2011, 01:23:57 PM »
Which of these Chicago area contenders will be the next to host a PGA tournament? Or a US Open?

1. Butler National
2. Chicago Highlands
3. Conway Farms
4. Medinah #3
5. Olympia Fields North
6. Rich Harvest Farms

Cog Hill not included because they will be hosting the BMW this fall.

Medinah after Doak's re-do. ;D

Seriously, Medinah probably has the infrastructure and practice play areas to host a major as easily as any course in Chicago. And it can be toughened up, esp. if Doak does his magic on the greens. But it also hosts the Ryder Cup next year, so it may not want another major soon after.

Butler won't until it changes the membership policy, and folks in the know say that's not happening anytime soon.


George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A US Open Rota
« Reply #24 on: July 12, 2011, 01:27:51 PM »
Phil, it's hard to imagine the USGA abandoning the history of Pebble and Oakmont, let alone some of the other historic venues.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

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