The Definitive, Knock-Down, Drag-Out, DISMAL RIVER THREAD!!!

[Gary Daughters]

What strikes me, though, is how DR is an example/early victim of the dark side of modern communications (tweets and blogs and sites like this one), and of our idiotic obsession with rankings, and of our ever-increasing tendency to make (and to crave) instant judgements and bold pronoucements.  Nothing has time to breathe and to grow and to evolve anymore, everything (even our own experiences) must immediately be compared and contrasted to something else...

Peter,

I can agree with your point about the mindlessness of social media, but must wonder whether it's faulty when applied to DR.  If the folks at DR heard and responded to critics, that would be a good thing, no?  Is that at least part of what happened?

Gary

[Harris Nepon]

For what it's worth I think DR looks like a fantastic place. I really look forward to getting out there some how one day. From pictures and posts the golf course seems to speak for itself and is obviously a blast to play. What I like the most is what I hear of the atmosphere around the club. Seems like a grerat vibe that would yeild a fantastic golf trip.

BTW, the 5th major sounds like it was awesome.

[Jim Colton]

Jim, I don't believe DR was part of that Rater Retreat. But, I was not on the trip. I think they did SH and PC, not DR. Again, the major design changes are the greens and the surrounds adjacent to greens and fairways.

As for the previous atmosphere at the club. I never felt it was pretentious. On my initial visit I thought it was really unprofessional. On that initial visit, one of the people in the shop, said something to someone (a former old time poster who was friends with an original owner) and within 24 hours of my visit, rumors had spread from coast to coast. They weren't so much rumor, as factual mis-statements to undermine a certain persons credibility. Very unprofessional. I think their 2nd head pro was Rob Brown. He certainly was a very welcoming personality. After him, I believe Troon had Rocky as the face. Again, pretentious was never what I felt, but, I could be oblivious to attempts to be holier-than-thou.

On another note;
 I didn't quite understand the title of The 5th Major, until, Eric s'plained it all. But now my thoughts are runnig towards something along the lines of "The Fifth on Fourth"  How bad is that?

Adam,

  I found this:

http://www.golfweek.com/news/2010/aug/16/unique-look-golf-nebraska/

  It talks about the changes and quotes Chris, but it's not entirely clear whether or not the 28 panelists actually stopped in Mullen or not.

[Chris Johnston]

Wasn't DR part of Brad Klein's GW rater bus tour of Nebraska last summer? I thought I remember reading a blurb he wrote about the changes there. I'm guessing there was a bump in the numbers from the recent visits, but obviously not enough to overcome the slow start. I wonder if Brad (or Chris) has specific numbers it could disclose.

Jim - There were a few raters that came out last year, but we weren't in the official trip rota as there was a cost involved to join in and that didn't feel right.  Also, several previous course changes (greens) were growing in at that time and we wanted the chance to see what we had to put our touch on her and "calibrate" the course.  Today, raters are welcome to see her but I agree with the above, to really experience Dismal River, like Sand Hills, you must play it over several days to really appreciate the shot values, greens, and strategy.  We focus on "feel" or overall experience.  I don't know specific rater numbers as that really isn't a priority for us, but would agree that early reviews are now probably obsolete.  Maybe the ratings criteria should be adjusted as all that matters today, is today.

John/Michael - I too love the existing 13th green location.  We benefit by working in sand, thus we can redo the green while playing the new complex.  With a short season, I hate having to unplug a hole for members and guests.  Why redo the existing green?  The left side has settled a bit and a well played shot may be penalized by rolling into the rough.  We'll put the new green into play and see how she feels

Walkability - DR is no harder to walk than Sand Hills, but we do need to reclaim the carry paths put in last year.  The walk is interesting and tees are located adjacent to greens.  Our here, people play all day and find it difficult to walk 36 or even 54 - I have trouble with that on a flat course.  Few people choose to walk.

As to pretentiousness - let me clarify a bit.  The club has always had a very nice feel, great facilities, and terrific members.  The initial investor group are super great guys but the initial onsite developer was arrogant and pretentious and that set the place back - this is what was arrogant and pretentious.  The staff have always been top notch and all did a good job, but it has taken time to knock off the original rust and add  a pinch of soul.  Thankfully, while it doesn't happen often in golf, it only takes one bad guy to set a club back.

Mark - great pics.  You weren't just playing the 5th Major, you were WINNING the 5th major!  That was fun.

[Scott Szabo]

The picture of #7 looks eerily similar to #11 at Sand Hills.  At least as far as the bunker complex on the inside of the dogleg and general nature of the hole.  Once you get to the green site I'd imagine the similarities stop there.

From what I understand, there was a major re-do on hole #13.  Does anyone have any more pictures of this hole?  Any before and after photos?  

Also, the width of the playing surface seems to be much greater than earlier photos.  I would imagine this would make a huge difference in the playability of the course.

[Mac Plumart]

Today, raters are welcome to see her but I agree with the above, to really experience Dismal River, like Sand Hills, you must play it over several days to really appreciate the shot values, greens, and strategy.

Chris, as a rater I have to agree with this 100%.  And to all rater's interested in going out to play Dismal, please allow for more than one play and/or more than one day out there.  My personal taste is to have a course ease you into a round (like a stereotypical Ross course), but Dismal smacks you in the face right off the bat with holes 1 and 2.  Both holes have massive potential for blind shots and if you are not familiar with the course, just power traveled to get there, and are not 100% ready to focus and play golf...you can start the round off by getting your teeth kicked in.  Then at hole 3, you might start to catch your bearings.

If you are there for multiple days/plays, you can become familiar with the way to play 1 and 2, the blindness isn't as overwhelming, and you'll be more "settled" into the round/course.

Plus with multiple plays/days, you can try to drive 8 green one time and play out left the next.  See different pins on hole 10.  Play different tees on 18.  Etc.  There is simply a lot there to experience.

[Adam Clayman]

Scott, #7 is nothing like 11 at SH. If there's a feeling to the 7th, it's the feeling of Prairie Dunes 13th. imo, of course.

[Scott Szabo]

Adam,

Didn't mean to imply that the holes play similar.  Just that when I saw the picture of #7 that's what came to mind.  It has more to do with the bunker complex at the inside of the dogleg and sweeping right to left nature of the entire hole.  Obviously the green sites are nothing alike, nor would the shot requirements into them.

[Evan Fleisher]

Jim, I don't believe DR was part of that Rater Retreat. But, I was not on the trip. I think they did SH and PC, not DR. Again, the major design changes are the greens and the surrounds adjacent to greens and fairways.

As for the previous atmosphere at the club. I never felt it was pretentious. On my initial visit I thought it was really unprofessional. On that initial visit, one of the people in the shop, said something to someone (a former old time poster who was friends with an original owner) and within 24 hours of my visit, rumors had spread from coast to coast. They weren't so much rumor, as factual mis-statements to undermine a certain persons credibility. Very unprofessional. I think their 2nd head pro was Rob Brown. He certainly was a very welcoming personality. After him, I believe Troon had Rocky as the face. Again, pretentious was never what I felt, but, I could be oblivious to attempts to be holier-than-thou.

On another note;
 I didn't quite understand the title of The 5th Major, until, Eric s'plained it all. But now my thoughts are runnig towards something along the lines of "The Fifth on Fourth"  How bad is that?

Adam,

  I found this:

http://www.golfweek.com/news/2010/aug/16/unique-look-golf-nebraska/

  It talks about the changes and quotes Chris, but it's not entirely clear whether or not the 28 panelists actually stopped in Mullen or not.

We in fact did NOT play DR during last year's Nebraska Bus Tour.  During our round at SH Brad did hop over to play DR...but no one else went along.

[Jim Colton]

27 guys played Sand Hills via GolfWeek? Nice!

[Eric Smith]

Reposted on the other thread.

[Evan Fleisher]

27 guys played Sand Hills via GolfWeek? Nice!

...and gals...yep!

[Kalen Braley]

So to put it in relative terms for those who have played them...

....  how do you split the hypothetical 10 rounds?

Dismal vs Sand Hills
Dismal vs Ballyneal


P.S.  The course does look really really good, and I love the windmill feature on the 4th..

[JNC Lyon]

Kalen,

I tweeted that I would split rounds 7-3 between Dismal and Royal Cinque Ports, one of my favorite courses that I have played several times.  Ballyneal is my favorite course, but, for some reason, I would split rounds 6-4 between Ballyneal and Dismal River.  Why?  Because after playing Dismal River four times, I realize that you need that many rounds to really get to know it.

[Greg Tallman]

Jim - There were a few raters that came out last year, but we weren't in the official trip rota as there was a cost involved to join in and that didn't feel right.  

[/quote]


Chris, Can you elaborate?

[Mark Saltzman]

So to put it in relative terms for those who have played them...

....  how do you split the hypothetical 10 rounds?

Dismal vs Sand Hills
Dismal vs Ballyneal

Having now played all that western Nebraska (does not include Ballyneal) has to offer, I would split 20 rounds thusly:

Dismal River - 5
Prairie Club (Pines) - 1
Prairie Club (Dunes) - 6
Sand Hills - 5
Bayside - 2
Awarii Dunes - 0
Wild Horse - 1

[Jim Colton]

So to put it in relative terms for those who have played them...

....  how do you split the hypothetical 10 rounds?

Dismal vs Sand Hills
Dismal vs Ballyneal

Having now played all that western Nebraska (does not include Ballyneal) has to offer, I would split 20 rounds thusly:

Dismal River - 5
Prairie Club (Pines) - 1
Prairie Club (Dunes) - 6
Sand Hills - 5
Bayside - 2
Awarii Dunes - 0
Wild Horse - 1

That's a ringing endorsement for DR and PC, Mark. Care to elaborate Sand Hills versus these two? I suspect if most had 20 rounds to distribute, the list might have 18-20 rounds at SH!

[Mark Saltzman]

So to put it in relative terms for those who have played them...

....  how do you split the hypothetical 10 rounds?

Dismal vs Sand Hills
Dismal vs Ballyneal

Having now played all that western Nebraska (does not include Ballyneal) has to offer, I would split 20 rounds thusly:

Dismal River - 5
Prairie Club (Pines) - 1
Prairie Club (Dunes) - 6
Sand Hills - 5
Bayside - 2
Awarii Dunes - 0
Wild Horse - 1

That's a ringing endorsement for DR and PC, Mark. Care to elaborate Sand Hills versus these two? I suspect if most had 20 rounds to distribute, the list might have 18-20 rounds at SH!

In brief,

Prairie Club was by far the most expansive golf course I have ever seen or played.  I played it four times from three tees in two winds (and two different pins) and the course played amazingly different each time.  Each time I found new things that I really liked that I didn't notice on previous go-arounds.  Each green probably has ten interesting pin positions and I want to play all of them.  Even now there are several holes I am thinking back on, wondering if the way I played them was the best way. 

Sand Hills was perhaps the best golf course I have ever played.  But, I didn't have as much fun playing it as I did Dismal or Prairie Club.  I found that there was less decision making off the tee than either of the other courses.  By my third round I knew exactly where the best place to hit each tee shot was.  I didn't have to think about the tee shots, it was more just aim and hit.  Sand Hills is also tiring to play.  Most every approach has places that you just can't hit it.  Shots like the second into 11 are plain stressful.  Great hole, but tiring.  I would love to play it again, but I'd be equally happy playing DR or PC.

There are some hard holes at DR, no question.  Depending on wind, either 2 or 14 plays as an awesome par 4.5 (they're par 4s). But the course has so many fun holes and with the greens at a more manageable speed than SH, you're not always on the defensive.  The sets of par 5s is about as diverse and exciting group as I have ever played.  3 of the par 3s play to similar yardages, but I guarantee you that you will hit a pretty big range of clubs into the three of them (because of elevation change / different wind directions for each).

Perhaps not the greatest answer, Jim, but I really tried to pick the courses based on 'gut reaction' rather than why exactly I picked the numbers as I did.   

[RJ_Daley]

Having now played all that western Nebraska (does not include Ballyneal) has to offer, I would split 20 rounds thusly:

Dismal River - 5
Prairie Club (Pines) - 1
Prairie Club (Dunes) - 6
Sand Hills - 5
Bayside - 2
Awarii Dunes - 0
Wild Horse - 1

In a way, this list makes me feel old.  Who would have ever thought such a list of western NE golf would exist a mere decade ago?

Hell, make it 25 plays and add in BallyNeal to the western NE list!!!!  I heard a rumor that NE was going to square up their SW border anyway and annex the area of Holyoke.   

[Carl Nichols]

27 guys played Sand Hills via GolfWeek? Nice!

And there was a cost to the club associated with it?

[Eric Smith]

AG asked earlier about playability for a high handicapper. I've played enough golf with Anthony to know that his low running cut shot would make him a confirmed Dismalista when he finally gets out there. Here's the thing: the wind in the sand hills essentially demands a golf course to have options as to how to play the holes. This is paramount if you are to deliver the fun factor and hope to sustain it in the ever changing conditions. Dismal can and does play quite differently over the course of a 4 round / 3 day event. For example: on the short four - number 8, a guy like me is going to go for the green in any condition presented when playing off of the 260 tee. Doesn't mean I'm assured to have an eagle putt in every wind, but can usually get it up around the green and/or landing area. First day I flew it over the green in mild conditions. Next day, short into a stiff breeze, then pin high from the forward tee in the same wind. Last day with a good bit of wind at my back I was finally on the green with a putt for 2.

For the shorter hitter like Anthony, he would likely only play for the direct route when the wind is cooperating, which it was during the final round on Sunday. I played with a couple of guys who didn't attempt the carry route in the days prior to Sunday, but with the added confidence to pull off the shot with the steady breeze at their back, they did in fact make solid plays to the green.

I also agree with what some of the previous posters say about getting to know the golf course after playing it multiple times. I was pretty darn beat up when the final day rolled around, yet ended up besting my low round of the week by 5 shots with an 80 from the square tees (6600 +/-), liipping out a 7 footer on 18 for what would've been my 5th birdie of the round! I'm an 11 hcp and lost only one ball, compared to a few more than that on the previous day!

Speaking of the new 18th, it is a marked improvement when considering that FUN = Eagle/Birdie attempts. Also, being able to watch birdie and eagle putts rather than par chips further on up the fairway is a sure-fire crowd pleaser when sitting on the back porch of Jack's Shack. I love the change.

[Chris Johnston]

I was pretty darn beat up when the final day rolled around, yet ended up besting my low round of the week by 5 shots with an 80 from the square tees (6600 +/-), liipping out a 7 footer on 18 for what would've been my 5th birdie of the round!

Eric - you shot 79.  It was a three footer we gave it to you!

BTW - where is the knock-down, drag out?

[Doug Siebert]

I, too, like the current 13th green a great deal.  What an epic green site!  It took me a few days to figure out that the best look into the green is from just right of the left hand bunker, while the right hand side provides a better angle but forces the player to hit a blind shot into the green.  I don't care for the new green.  It appears artificial, and it is too far from the 14th tee.  For what it's worth (probably not too much), I'd leave the current greensite fully intact.  The back nine needs one good short par four, and the current 13th is it.

John,

I agree with you about the placement of the 13th green in relation to the 14th tee, but the new green looks pretty cool.  I got a close look at it when I accidentally hit my second shot to it on the first day (give me a break, I had just driven 600 miles and hadn't slept in about a day and a half at that point )  It looks pretty neat.  The character of the hole will certainly change, I don't think in a negative way.  One thing I don't like about the current hole is how the fairway runs out short of the green.  Since I accidentally brought a second driver instead of a fairway wood, I didn't really have a club for that tee shot (as with the 8th hole) so I had to try to hit a partial shot with my driver.  I've just never been a big fan of enforcing a hole as a two or three shotter by ending the fairway prematurely...

Personally I think it'd be a better hole if that little trench was filled in and there was a narrow neck with native grass immediately on either side, to allow for a risk/reward attempt at the green.  You'd have to really hit your drive straight, and failure to do so could get ugly, especially with a front pin in the position it was on Saturday!  That neck would also allow for the option of a ground approach second if you were straight enough to be lined up with it.

But that's neither here nor there, I think the new hole will be work just fine.  I think the plan is to keep both greens and switch between them.  Two fairways, two greens, sounds like plenty of interesting options!

[Chris Johnston]

Doug - while I like the current green, the new green will certainly have its day in court and we may well use both.  Like John, I like the way the existing green fits in a unique and very appealing spot.  The native area short of the current green is an asset for the shortish par 4, it wasn't designed to be drivable.  With changing winds, the tee shot requires thought and care - I like that.  Here, the local knowledge comments are right on!  Downwind, its simply a 3wood or hybrid leaving less that 150yds in to the smalling green.

The back tee for the 14th is 75ish yards from the existing 13th green and will be very close to the new green.  Off the back of 13 and around the corner.  In reality, the walks from green to tee at Dismal are actually shorter when compared to those at SHGC.  That's to be expected when you use the land as it sits. 

I really appreciate all of the great comments nd am glad Dismal has finally begun to get its due.  Its a fun place.

[Dan Herrmann]

I for one give DR two big thumbs UP.  I played another "Top 100" course on my trip, and DR was much, much better in all ways.