Greatest course with blah greens?

[Tony Ristola]

What course rated among the top in the world (or even courses generally considered excellent) has the most uninteresting greens?

[Scott_Burroughs]

I nominate Bethpage (Black).  I've played very few great courses, but I was stunned at some of the table top greens here when I played it.  If #2 green was made out stone and you placed a marble on it anywhere, it wouldn't move.

[Rich_Goodale]

I nominated Muirfield on another thread that asked the same question, and haven't changed my mind, yet.

[bmogg (Guest)]

Birkdale?

[Bob_Huntley]

Muirfield.

[Gib_Papazian]

I may be  barred entry from the Pub on St. Paddy's day, but the actual putting surfaces at County  Down are fairly flat.

Whether Old Head counts as a "great" course is probably a discussion for another day. That said, if it qualifies it wins the coveted "Blah Trophy."

Scott,

I have to think that Rees contoured (or didn't) the greens at Bethpage with U.S. Open speeds in mind.  Sad, but I'll betcha a dollar.

Speaking of, if Atlantic GC qualifies as "great," they are pretty blah too. Don't laugh, it won "Best New" just like Sandpines did.    

[Don_Mahaffey]

Turnberry

[TEPaul]

Gib:

Interesting what you say about the greens at Royal County Down! I know what you mean and I would say a bit of a yes and no to that. Some of them are very flat, others have some very broad breaking slope or broad contour to them--nothing on the course though like anything Maxwell did, for sure.

I would say, however, that the course and particularly the greens were in the most superb condition (excuse me, superb "maintenance meld"), ie; definitely fast enough, that I was very very glad they were not any less flat, if that's what they are!

[Chris_Hunt]

When I read the title of the post, I must admit that Royal County Down immediately sprung to mind.  In fact, I definitely prefer the greens on the Annesley Links there to its big brother.  They are probably not as bland as I thought, but they just seem too flattish in that setting.  All other scales are grand.  

[Paul Richards]

Having played at least 7 rounds on Royal County Down,
I can't say that I agree with you guys.  

RCD, after Cypress Point, is as close to heaven as you
can get.

And the greens are very, very good.  Natural, just following the contours of the land as it was laid out.  How can you
say that the 4th green is bland?  The eighth?

Just two examples.

[Paul Richards]

I'd be more inclined to agree with Scott.

Bethpage Black is a big, great course.  But the greens are
NOT what make it great.

[sndhlz]

shinnecock has some of the greens with the least flavor interest for a high profile course.

[Paul Turner]

Muirfield has a fine set.  Nice and subtle and really tricky to read.

[Rich_Goodale]

Paul

You are completely right about Muirfield.  Fine.  Nice.  Subtle.  Tricky to read.  Yes, yes, yes, yes....hmmm startin to sound like Molly Bloom here.....

However, this adds up to "blah", to me, in the context of great courses, if you had to pick one, only talking about greens (and not "green complexes"--where Muirfield is anything but "blah"), etc.

That's all I was trying to say.

Cheers

Rich

[Tony Ristola]

What about Harbour Town?  I think Dye builds maginficent greens from those I've seen, but the size at Harbour Town, save a few like the zig-zag green (can't remember the number), 16 and 17 doesn't allow for much interest.  

They demand accuracy to play to, but once reached...really interesting...more like blah.  They remind me of the greens on one of the courses I grew up playing...small and flattish with a little tilt.

[TEPaul]

PaulR;

You're so right that the greens at Royal County Down just seem to lay almost on the natural grade of the ground they're on!

ChrisH:

I can't believe it but I spent three days playing Royal County Down this summer (including Sept. 11th) and I have no idea where the Annesley links are there. Obviously it's what's known as course #2, right? Where is it?

[M.W. Burrows]

The obvious answer is Bethpage.  

I'll agree with Shinnecock to a point.  6 and 11 are great greens.  There are some great slopes too such as 7 and 18.

Myopia Hunt Club has some pretty blah greens with the exception of the severely sloping ones.  

I'll nominate Quaker Ridge as the best course to have the least appealing greens.

[George Bahto]

in this country, Bethpage Black and Harbour Town in a dead-butt tie

[Paul Turner]

Rich

I understand where you're coming from and I think you'd agree that Muirfield's greens fit the course?  Now way would I want to see really wild contours for those green complexes, the bunkers are severe enough.

Favourite greens at Muirfield: 4&13 where it gets very dicey above the hole. The 5th with its sideways tier, the 2nd. The 15th with its ridge and the only really wild one, the 11th.

I think the common consensus on this DG is that great greens have to be wildly/boldly contoured.  Is there no place for the complex and subtle green?  Or just simple tilted greens?

Anyway, my vote would go to Woodhall Spa.  But you don't notice this too much because the bunkers are so severe.

[Tony Ristola]

One course which really surprised me with the flatness of their greens (and they weren't small like Harbour Town) was the Nicklaus course at Colleton River Plantation.  Nice setting, low profile save one section of the course near the clubhouse.  I was later surprised, more shocked to discover it was a Top 100 course.

[Rich_Goodale]

Paul

I agree with you that the greens at Muirfield are right for the course, and also that we get too excited on this site about wild greens (and wild bunkers, wild fairways, etc.).

Muirfield has always been one of my favorite courses, as have Harbor Town and Birkdale come to think of it.

Maybe "blah" is good.

[John_Conley]

Great?  Maybe not, but my instant response is Lagoon Legend.

They've softened it a lot since it was built and hailed as one of the hardest 3 courses in the world, but the greens are as flat as my desk.  Reasoning was that after you worked so hard to get there they didn't want you sweating the short grass.

[Doug Wright]

Excluding St. Andrews, here are the courses I played in Scotland on the one   and only trip I've made to Scotland: Carnoustie, Ladybank, Crail, Elie, North Berwick (East and West), Muirfield, Dunbar, Turnberry (Ailsa and Arran), Prestwick and Royal Troon. You know what boys and girls? I submit that, with the exception of one or two greens at Carnoustie, North Berwick East, Muirfield and Prestwick, the greens at these otherwise very fine courses were by and large BLAH! I came at this as I was thinking about Muirfield vs Turnberry, where I concluded that Muirfield's greens were more interesting  and "less blah" than Turnberry's. In fact the Muirfield greens are IMO very subtle, which does not necessarily equal "blah," and my view of Muirfield vs Turnberry is admittedly tainted by my opinion that Muirfield is one of the finest routings in the world. Nevertheless, there you have it. BLAH-ness rules some of the finest courses in Scotland.

Just my opinion, which may be tainted by too many single malts during and since, so I could be wrong.  

[TEPaul]

Tony Ristola:

Could you email me at tpaul25737@aol.com

Tom

[Chris_Hunt]

TEP:

The Annesley course runs basically adjacent to the back nine of the championship course, but the course crosses over into the intense dunesland for the 8th-12th holes.  In walking from the Annesley 7th to the 8th, you cross the 13th fairway of the championship course.  The finishing holes of both courses run parallel.  Just from looking at the old course maps, I think that some of the original 9 and 18 are still alive on this small course.  It is worth a play or two, in my opinion.