[Scott Warren]

The Berkshire is among the best days out in all of golf (and the bang for your buck is ridiculously good), but I found myself wondering today whether by building two full-length 18-hole courses on the land, the club lost the opportunity to build one absolutely superlative courses -- well inside the world top 100 sort of course -- and then make of the remaining land what fit: a par three course or little "executive" course?

If you look at the dozen or so best greensites on the property, IMO you come up with:

Red - 2, 5, 8, 10, 12, 15, 16.
Blue - 1, 9, 12, 13, 14, 15.

Then there are holes such as 11 Blue, 13 Red, 11 Red, 18 Blue, which are wonderful holes despite lesser (to varying degrees) greensites than those above.

My recollection from a previous discussion with a few English GCA members was that when we set down to finding a preferred composite course, the holes were fairly well split between the two courses. Freed from the constraints of using the holes as they are, but having all that land to use for 18 holes, I think something even more special could have been achieved.

Thoughts? Am I wrong?

[Mark Chaplin]

Scott at the time Sunningdale, Wentworth & Walton Heath had two 18s, St Georges Hill added a second 18 in 1928 the same year as The Berkshire was built. To me it sounds like at the time if you had the space the market was for 36 hole clubs and it's likely that is why The Berkshire built two courses. Today I'm sure you'd have a great 18 and a magical par 3 course.

[Scott Warren]

Absolutely, what the club has now is fantastic, the twoball/fourball set-up caters to all parties, and now they have the very special club and courses they have, I'd never suggest messing with that.

But you're right that 3-8 on Blue is the flat spot of the 36 (I do like 2 Blue) and the area of 1, 18, 17 Red is probably that course's weakness and it just makes me look at the ridges around 10/12/13 Red and 9/12/13 Blue and wonder what could have been were those features the centrepieces of the same course rather than two courses.

Certainly, I think the land at The Berkshire is as good as anything else I've seen in Surrey and Berkshire.

[Mark Pearce]

I used to play two society days every year at the Berkshire.  Sadly, one moved it's Guest Day to Worplesdon (a clear step down in class, IMHO) so now it's only one (June 29th this year at £160 inc. lunch and tea, if anyone's interested in joining us)).  It's sort of a shame that the clubhouse has been modernised and has a slightly corporate feel to it but it ranks right up there as one of the best days in golf.  Perhaps you could produce one potential World Top 100 course and another, lesser course.  That would, IMHO, make the club a lesser place.

[James Boon]

Scott, I think its fair to say that with any 36 hole or more facility, that there is always a much better 18 holes hiding in there somewhere, but the pressure to get more golfers on the course is or has been at certain times a very real one. Blairgowrie in Scotland is a prime example, as somewhere amongst its 45 holes is a real gem of a course, but the 2.5 courses that they now have only hint at this to varying degrees, excellent facility though it is!

I'm sure Robin Hiseman posted an excellent composite course, but i cant find a mention of it, so I've e-mailed him to see if he can find it?

Cheers,

James

[Scott Warren]

James,

I think Robin's composite may have been in a group email and not on the forum. It was a while back, so I'm not certain.

Mark P,

Perhaps you could produce one potential World Top 100 course and another, lesser course.  That would, IMHO, make the club a lesser place.

I probably agree. One of the real joys of The Berk is that the two courses are on one hand so different in character, but also fairly neck-and-neck in terms of quality and each has an amazing stretch (Red 10-16, Blue 11-16) featuring a handful of the best holes on the property.

[Robin_Hiseman]

James

Found it in my archive emails.  I could smarten it up on photoshop now, but I think those who are interested can see the picture.  The day here with Mark was one of the very best.

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