[John Kavanaugh]

One of the old adages of early Golfclubatlas was that it is not worth traveling to see Ballyneal if you couldn't also play Sand Hills.  Wow, and people called them the good ole days.  But to move on, today it was announced that Doak is building a new course at Dismal River along side an existing course that has suddenly become a darling destination on its own.  Without even consideration for Ballyneal, Sand Hills, The Prairie Club, Wild Horse, Bayside and Awarii Dunes, what value is there in people of our purported ilk traveling to Dismal River and seeing the construction of the new course?  Can an argument be made that it makes even more sense to go now than wait for completion?

As just a small example for myself, I am most interested in seeing the planning and construction of the walking bridges.  While I may not be correct I have a feeling these bridges as viewed on the drive to the clubhouse may be one of those first impressions that become engrained in our opinion hole.

[George Pazin]

Kinda depends on what you're looking for. I'd probably be most interested in the routing stage, so I think I already missed that.

Given your industry, I think you would have a better appreciation of the construction stages than most of us.

[John Kavanaugh]

Kinda depends on what you're looking for. I'd probably be most interested in the routing stage, so I think I already missed that.

Given your industry, I think you would have a better appreciation of the construction stages than most of us.

But sweetie, you play less than 10 rounds per year.  What are you interested in?

[Pete_Pittock]

On a minimalist course seeing the sequencing of construction to cause the least harm.

[Peter Pallotta]

To watch how they tie-in the routing/holes with the surrounds.  

Sort of like watching the good lord smooth out your persona so that it fit-ins with the human race....

Peter  

[George Pazin]

But sweetie, you play less than 10 rounds per year.  What are you interested in?

Don't need to play much to be interested in routing. But thanks for caring enough to ask!

[John Kavanaugh]

But sweetie, you play less than 10 rounds per year.  What are you interested in?

Don't need to play much to be interested in routing. But thanks for caring enough to ask!

George,

Wouldn't you love to get out there and guess what will be changed or compare it to the Tiger routing?  I think you would be shocked to see how bare 18 little flags are and what bunkers pre-exist or may not be used at all.  You don't really believe that everything as laid out today will be exactly as it is finished. 

[George Pazin]

George,

Wouldn't you love to get out there and guess what will be changed or compare it to the Tiger routing?  I think you would be shocked to see how bare 18 little flags are and what bunkers pre-exist or may not be used at all.  You don't really believe that everything as laid out today will be exactly as it is finished. 

Absolutely, I'd love to see all of that. I'm not only interested in routing, just primarily. If I had the time, I'd be volunteering for the project as part of the fantasy camp. I'd love to see it from start to finish, if I could. I just figured since you read my mind so well, you knew all that.

[SL_Solow]

There isn't much that wouldn't be of interest and it varies depending on the site.  For me, every time i have visited a construction site, I have become more aware of the practical problems faced by the crew which may involve drainage, clearing, tie-ins etc etc.  We all focus on the "look", the choices presented by the holes, the variety and all the other arty stylistic issues.  Each of these factors are very important in the ultimate success or failure of the design.  But watching a course being built or renovated it helps me remember that none of those issues matter unless somebody can take those ideas and put them in and on the ground.  So while I probably most appreciate watching someone work on tie ins, like I did at Winged Foot a few years ago, that is probably due to my ineptitude with heavy machinery. Its easier for me to understand the finishing work. But I am equally impressed by all of the work, whether it is a new course or a significant renovation like we did at Briarwood.  It helps bring perspective which is a wonderful thing.

[Carl Rogers]

In the fall of 05, I won the latest Golf Mag Armchair Architect prize.  The prize was to spend some time on a course under construction with TD & Team.   As a building architect, I have seen many piles of dirt and large equipment.

In Janaury of 2006, I spent 3 days at the Bay of Dreams in Baja Mexico.  I just tagged along, asked some questions now and then and tried not to make a pest of myself.  At the time the course was more or less cleared but the front nine was in a significant state of flux as the clients were trying to sort out the real estate development.  The value of seeing this was similar to previous comments.  Big problems and little problems ... big picture and little picture.   The topo done at in 1 meter grades missed a few items...

The biggest takeaway I had was the level of effort Brian & Brian had to put out each day.  Not a field for the faint of heart.  A lot of mental flexibility required.

On the way to to Cabo in a single engine plane, I realized some of the initial green well digging was trying to echo the patterns of mountians and sloping ridges.

At the time that part of Baja was a very isolated place.

[JC Jones]

Is it more or less fun than watching sausage being made?

[Tim_Weiman]

John,

If you are interested in the creative process, seeing courses both before anything is done and during construction is pretty cool.

I've never been a fan of Doonbeg, but seeing the property before anything was done is probably my fondest memory of the place. The first green site wasn't really created by Norman and company. It was actually thieves stealing sand from the landowner's property. Lots of it.

[Sam Morrow]

I don't care for seeing a course be built but I would love to walk around a site and listen to the work that goes into the routing of it. I would love to follow an architect on a tough piece of land that's heavily wooded, I got this idea talking to a gentleman at Dallas National a few weeks ago. I just don't have the creativity to put all that together.

[Peter Pallotta]

Is it more or less fun than watching sausage being made?

I used to make sausages with my parents as a kid.  It wasn't all that fun, and just a little bit interesting.  But later you could eat them, usually with some cheese and olives and thick bread, and for the kids a wine spritzer. I bet Don M would enjoy that as a mid day snack out on the job site.   

[Chris Johnston]

John - I spend a good bit this afternoon watching Tom play a few shots in the grass on the new course and, after hooking up with Dirt and his son Ryan, we watched him study the routing...really study from stem to stern.  That was very interesting to see as I missed Jack in the early stages.  The routing began as outstanding and gets better as smaller details are revealed.

The more I'm with Tom and Don, the more I really admire both.  They are humble gentlemen and absolute experts at what they do.  We are in very good and steady hands.  I couldn't be more happy.

[Ron Farris]

To watch how they tie-in the routing/holes with the surrounds.  

Sort of like watching the good lord smooth out your persona so that it fit-ins with the human race....

Peter  

WOW.......SMOOTHING OF MY PERSONA HAS BEEN SOMETHING MY WIFE HAS BEEN TRYING TO DO FOR DECADES, I WILL TELL HER TO DEFER TO HIGHER GROUND..........Thank You, Thank You, Thank You!

[Dónal Ó Ceallaigh]

In my opinion it would be an incredible learning experience. I regret not having visited two courses that were under construction close to my home. It would have been interesting to see how they cleared the site of trees, how they moved earth, laid out the drainage, shaped the fairways and greens, etc. Perhaps some people don't care how a course is constructed, but I would want to know how everything was done.

[Mac Plumart]

Post #4 by Peter just might be the very best and most clever I've ever seen.  Very funny, Peter!!

[JC Jones]

we watched him study the routing...really study from stem to stern. 

Do you think that is more or less productive than studying from port to port, bow to bow or starboard to starboard?

[Chris Johnston]

we watched him study the routing...really study from stem to stern. 

Do you think that is more or less productive than studying from port to port, bow to bow or starboard to starboard?

You're killin me, Sparty.  You will be hearing from my...er...um...counsel 

[JC Jones]

we watched him study the routing...really study from stem to stern. 

Do you think that is more or less productive than studying from port to port, bow to bow or starboard to starboard?

You're killin me, Sparty.  You will be hearing from my...er...um...counsel 

I can feel your hugs and kisses even though there is 1000 miles between us.

[Mike Hendren]

Interesting questions that prompt a continuing question:  Are golf course architecture and construction two distinct disciplines?   When financing construction of a building, I require copies of the agreement with architect and general contractor, even if it's a design/build. 

I don't need to see a highway being built or paved to know whether it functions or not.  I feel the same way about a golf course.  But, in no way does that diminish my admiration for those who design and construct the good ones. 

Mike

[RJ_Daley]

   
Re: What value is there in watching a course being built?

Well, no value at all for some, and for others, it completes their overall effort to study and enjoy the subject of golf course architecture and construction.  There are great golfers who couldn't care on bit how the damn golf course got built nor what the land looked like before it was a golf course, yet their uncanny ability to play and understand what is there on the ground before them as a playing challenge, along with their ability to hit the shots the course design calls for, is superior and makes them some of the greatest players in the world.

On the other hand, there are guys that relish the chance to see or work within the process of the planning, routing, phazing, and construction, including study the engineering, and comprehend all of those aspects, and ironically the poor mutts can't play the game a lick!   

I loved the book, "Pillars of the Earth" by K. Follett.  I would love nothing better than to watch the construction of a great Cathedral from start to finish (even if it took 50 years).  Yet, I'm not likely to be found praying inside once it is done... go figure.  Other guys go there to pray daily, and don't even see the artistry and genius of the masonry or other craftmanship and engineering that went into the support of the nave that they kneel down within and confidently believe it will not fall upon them.  Go figure... 

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