News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Our Next Big Thing
« on: July 07, 2011, 10:52:32 PM »

There are several purposes to this post:

1)  To obviate the need for Chris Johnston to make any more painful hints,

2)  To pre-empt people from starting to call it the Doak course, and

3)  To share my enthusiasm for an exciting new project.


After months of speculation, negotiation, and more than a little bit of legwork, I am pleased to announce that Renaissance Golf Design will be building a second 18 holes at Dismal River Club in Nebraska, funded by a recent membership assessment (!).  In fact, my associate Brian Slawnik has already mowed out our layout over the past couple of weeks, and I will be joining Don Mahaffey in Nebraska over the weekend to start the logistical work on putting in the irrigation system.

It is an honor to be working in the sand hills region.  In all, I've looked at six different sites in western Nebraska over the past ten years.  But I've always understood I would probably only get one chance to build a course in the area -- because every owner wants a different architect for their course, and because most owners feel like they deserve an exclusive arrangement with their architect, even if they don't want to pay extra for it.  ;)   The more you know about the sand hills, the harder it is to give up on all the sites you haven't seen.

Dismal River has some unnatural advantages over other potential projects in the region.  There is a lot of infrastructure in the ground there -- the clubhouse, some beautiful cabins, a vast maintenance complex and staff housing -- with the debt wiped away.  Now, for the price of a $2.5 million golf course, Chris has the potential to double the revenues not just from golf, but from the rooms and the dining operation, if we can build a golf course that's as good the original 18 holes.

However, we're not there to compete with Jack's course.  We've got a routing which we believe will make for a great course in its own right.  That's a tall order in a region with Sand Hills and Ballyneal, and I'm not sure I could have been confident about the outcome if this were just another course in the dunes.

Here's where the river comes in.  Anyone who has been to see the place knows that after 15 miles of entrance road, when you cross the river and turn for the clubhouse, you've entered a special landscape … with the Dismal River sheltered by a 200-foot bluff to the north.  You don't see any of that from the Nicklaus course, but that will be the setting for the new course, with the first eight holes above the road and the "back ten" down below.

Since all the land close to the clubhouse is committed to cabins and founder's lots, it was inevitable that any new course would have a remote start and finish.  But, I figured it wasn't essential for those two points to be in the same place -- so I had the freedom of coming up with a routing plan that starts in one place and finishes in another. 

Our routing will start along the entrance road about a half mile from the clubhouse -- right where the road forks to go up to the maintenance building.  There is an upper loop of eight holes, playing clockwise back to the starter's hut [if we bother to build one]; then the short par-4 ninth heads straight along a ridge toward the bluff, overlooking the river.  The back nine loops out to the east, and gradually descends toward the river, with the last three holes playing in the bottom of the valley close to the Dismal.  [Actually, now that I think about it, in plan the routing is sort of the shape of a lasso.] 

The best compliment I've had on it so far is Chris' observation that he thought the course would have to play up and down the valleys in the dunes, but our layout, for the most part, does other things instead.

So, what we seek is a course in a sand-dune environment, with more of the variety of landscape to be found in the big-sky country of Rock Creek.  Those who think the highlight of my courses are the par-4 holes, will not be disappointed with short par-4's like the 6th, 9th and 15th, and long par-4's like the 13th, 17th, and 18th; while those of you who have opined that my par-3 holes are kind of weak, will have to take it back by the time you've played the third hole, or for sure by the time you limp off the fifth.

I am headed west tomorrow to finalize some of the details and to meet some of the members who have supported our involvement; I may try to post some pictures once I'm there.  If anyone is coming to the sand hills in August or September, come out and see us at work, trying to get a little bit of golf in the ground as a head start for next year.

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Our Next Big Thing
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2011, 10:56:00 PM »
bitchin'...
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

JC Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Our Next Big Thing
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2011, 10:58:11 PM »
How bovine!
I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

Steve D

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Our Next Big Thing
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2011, 11:01:02 PM »
Tom,

Is the course being designed with walking in mind and will there be cart paths?

Steve

Mac Plumart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Our Next Big Thing
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2011, 11:06:38 PM »
If anyone is coming to the sand hills in August or September, come out and see us at work, trying to get a little bit of golf in the ground as a head start for next year.

Well, I'll be there in August AND September!!  Frankly, I couldn't be more excited!! 
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Our Next Big Thing
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2011, 11:15:03 PM »
Tom,
Congratulations.
Will you be importing the real bunker sand from Ohio or will you just use what is there ?
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

JNC Lyon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Our Next Big Thing
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2011, 11:27:39 PM »
That land along the Dismal River appears to be dynamite.  I am very excited to see how the course plays out, because what is there now could not be more exciting!  That short par four at 15 looks like it will be phenomenal, with a killer green site on the edge of the bluff.  I'm glad this was announced--now we can talk about that part of the trip!
"That's why Oscar can't see that!" - Philip E. "Timmy" Thomas

Eric Smith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Our Next Big Thing
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2011, 11:40:38 PM »
Tom,

I know I'm not alone when I say that this golf course is going to be one of the most fun, most beautiful courses one could imagine. When I arrived last Friday, Mac and I took a tour with Chris about an hour and a half before sundown, with the bluff casting its long shadow across the final holes. What a magical setting - right out of Tolkien's Middle Earth. The holes across the road are definitely unlike any other in the region.

I hope you don't mind my posting a photo I took of the first par 3:



Another eye opening aspect to this place - the golf course we toured is already there! It's as if you guys are uncovering a golf course that was laid out a hundred years ago, sort of like Old Tom's Askernish. On our last night there we took one last ride around and it was so much fun seeing it a second time, this time knowing the holes and the routing. I swear the back ten reminds me of Pennard and I don't think it was just because of the cows!

It's going to be a lot of fun seeing it come to life over the next couple of years. Congratulations to everyone involved. Wish I could fly back out tomorrow.

Wade Whitehead

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Our Next Big Thing
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2011, 11:41:53 PM »
Tom:

Congratulations on another great project.

Please tell us how the construction process will evolve and how it (the actual digging/building/shaping/seeding instruction) compares to other courses you've built.  The minimal steps taken at Sand Hills have always fascinated me.  I don't know much about how the first Dismal River course was built.

Thanks.

WW

JC Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Our Next Big Thing
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2011, 11:49:58 PM »
What a magical setting - right out of Tolkien's Middle Earth.

This is your second Lord of the Rings reference in the last few months.  UNacceptable.
I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Our Next Big Thing
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2011, 11:53:48 PM »
Great work getting Mahaffey involved.

JC, I made a Lord of the Rings reference earlier today as well.  (See the Painswick thread.)   Eric the Bold and I are on the same wave length!

JC Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Our Next Big Thing
« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2011, 11:56:11 PM »

 Eric the Bold and I are on the same wave length!

Not something either of you should be proud of.
I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

Chris Buie

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Our Next Big Thing
« Reply #12 on: July 08, 2011, 12:02:26 AM »
This is the tipping point in the case for Nebraska golf.

Michael George

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Our Next Big Thing
« Reply #13 on: July 08, 2011, 12:11:08 AM »
Wow.

Mullen, Nebraska could becoming the golf capital of the Midwest.  It is hard to imagine giving Renaissance that property and it not being immediately a Top 50 course.  Once the Nicklaus course gets its due, there should  be 3 top 100 in a remote corner of Nebraska.  

As a fun exercise and to help Tom avoid the "Doak" course and the "Nicklaus" course designations, the guys that just got back should propose some names based on the two lay-outs.  While you could see one being called the "River" course, I don't think it is going to be acceptable to name the other "Dismal" - my pathetic attempt at humor - sorry.   You guys can act as a free focus group for the club.

Congratulations Tom.  How much dirt do you anticipate having to move?  Will it be the least amount that you have ever moved?  If so, this corner of the world (along with Ballyneal nearby) could become the modern day minimalist design capital of the golf world.

  

"First come my wife and children.  Next comes my profession--the law. Finally, and never as a life in itself, comes golf" - Bob Jones

Peter Pallotta

Re: Our Next Big Thing
« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2011, 12:21:13 AM »
I'm happy for you and your team, Tom, and of course for the Dismalites. Also I echo Bill in being happy that Don is on board - some kind of special inexpensive and simple to maintain and healthy and sustainable turf is on the way!! 

If I can ask such a thing, did you have Don in mind/on board when working on the routing? if so, do you think the idea of how it would play under Don influenced your thinking re design?

Peter


Howard Riefs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Our Next Big Thing
« Reply #15 on: July 08, 2011, 12:23:00 AM »
Congratulations, Tom.

Enjoy the upcoming year of Mullen / Polk County, Fla., trips. The courses on both sides of the route will be much anticipated by all of us.
"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke

Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Our Next Big Thing
« Reply #16 on: July 08, 2011, 01:03:04 AM »
Is it common for members of a privately-owned club to fund improvements/additions as significant as an entirely new golf course?

(Not shit-stirring. I know sweet FA about the economics of the golf development industry and this seems a strange arrangement to me, but for all I know it's entirely normal. I ask the question aware that we have among us the owner, the architect and a handful of members. I intend no disrespect to any of you.)

Neil_Crafter

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Our Next Big Thing
« Reply #17 on: July 08, 2011, 01:17:07 AM »
Congratulations Tom, best of luck with the new project and look forward to you posting some photos.

John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Our Next Big Thing
« Reply #18 on: July 08, 2011, 01:49:29 AM »
How bovine!

I'm down.

Congratulations to Tom and Don on the new project, and another chance to get the grass just so.  Getting it right around the edges is art, I'm convinced.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2011, 01:58:51 AM by John Kirk »

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Our Next Big Thing
« Reply #19 on: July 08, 2011, 02:43:29 AM »
Anyone care to take a stab at a general routing  by photoshopping in some stick lines?  ;D

http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=41.86824441004647~-101.26406905959668&lvl=15&dir=0&sty=h&form=LMLTCC



No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Jim Nugent

Re: Our Next Big Thing
« Reply #20 on: July 08, 2011, 03:36:18 AM »
I remember when Tom announced the Old Mac project.  The anticipation here was almost unbearable.  This new Dismal River course may top Old Mac in that regard. 

Doak keeps moving from triumph to triumph.  Unlike Tiger, I doubt any sexual scandals will derail him.  So my prediction fwiw is that he ends up with 10 courses in the top world 100 before he's done. 

Does the course have an ETA? 

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Our Next Big Thing
« Reply #21 on: July 08, 2011, 06:14:02 AM »
Tom,

Will you be importing the real bunker sand from Ohio or will you just use what is there ?

Mike:

It's too early to tell yet.  We have to sign up some consultants to sieve test it all and tell us what to do, and then we may have to build a few test bunkers and get the owner to try them out to make sure the sand has an appealing color and makes for easy recovery shots and all.  Or, I was thinking maybe we could get the Tour involved so our bunkers would be consistent with all the Tour events. 

Or we could just use what we have.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Our Next Big Thing
« Reply #22 on: July 08, 2011, 06:14:34 AM »
I've got to go catch a plane, will try to answer other questions tonight from Nebraska.

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Our Next Big Thing
« Reply #23 on: July 08, 2011, 06:40:55 AM »
What's most amazing is the uniqueness of the back 10 topography. Just like the Prairie club has a very unique look, because of the canyon and trees, so does the back 10. Besides the snaking river, on the NW side of the site, is a scar in the hillside which is purported to be an ancient Buffalo crossing of the Dismal.

Another fascinating fact is that the Dismal river never changes it's height. It's spring fed and there are spots where you can actually see the springs coming out of the ground.

Tom, How far is the span to cross the one big riparian? I have a friend who builds bridges for the RR, and it might be hard to find one that's too big, and very costly.

I like the name Buffalo Pass. And, instead of a halfway house named after the architect, maybe a heated hot spring, where one can take in a Doak soak.  :o ::) :'(

BTW, I spoke with another archie yesterday who actually said they are quite busy right now. With today's employment number due out in 90 minutes, there's a sense this will be a breakout day. Let's hope the recent gains in the stock market, won't yield a contrary response.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2011, 06:45:29 AM by Adam Clayman »
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Ben Sims

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Our Next Big Thing
« Reply #24 on: July 08, 2011, 06:44:57 AM »
Tom,

Will you be importing the real bunker sand from Ohio or will you just use what is there ?

Mike:

It's too early to tell yet.  We have to sign up some consultants to sieve test it all and tell us what to do, and then we may have to build a few test bunkers and get the owner to try them out to make sure the sand has an appealing color and makes for easy recovery shots and all.  Or, I was thinking maybe we could get the Tour involved so our bunkers would be consistent with all the Tour events. 

Or we could just use what we have.

I don't care who you are, that's funny.

This is an exciting announcement.  There's a degree of happiness for the Renaissance crew, but even more so for Don.  I've been very lucky to have Don as a friend and mentor in this golf endeavor I've begun.  He's got skills that kills and it's going to be fun to watch him and Renaissance dudes get busy.  

Tom and Don, are you at liberty to discuss some of the more unique aspects of the design?