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Doug Wright

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Our Next Big Thing
« Reply #75 on: July 08, 2011, 03:28:27 PM »
Perhaps the greatest statement since "Let there be light?"  Doak has taken architecture to an entirely new level by speaking a top 10 course into existence!

Quote
Big guitars, diamond rings.
Everybody's crazy 'bout the next big thing.

Just kidding you giddy girls.  Sincere congratulations all around.

Mike

Mike that is really funny... Congratulations and best wishes to Chris Johnston and the Dismal River folks.
Twitter: @Deneuchre

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Our Next Big Thing
« Reply #76 on: July 08, 2011, 03:35:36 PM »
My only other suggestion is that with two courses now, I highly recommend a well compensated on-site counsel.   ;D

For that to even be considered, said counsel must be a member of the club. 

Go ahead, punk...Make my day!

Be careful how you word your demand - as it stands, I believe Jason might be quite happy with it. :)
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Jason Hines

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Our Next Big Thing
« Reply #77 on: July 08, 2011, 03:37:15 PM »
Tom, I will be at Dismal mid-September, will definitely try and take you up on your offer on taking a quick peak if you are around.
With regards to a name, “Dude Ranch” might be appropriate!  Also, I believe Awarii is Pawnee.

Honestly, I am not surprised that the growth of quality golf continues in the Sand Hills of Nebraska.  To repeat myself and others on this board, that area of the country will haunt you to return soon after you leave.  I have been going back ever since ’99, a little less lately since I moved away from Omaha and  Dismal River club was never really on the list of places to visit because I knew a couple of former members that had quit several, several years ago.  

Kudos to you and your group Chris, can’t wait to come out in September.

Jason Hines

Howard Riefs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Our Next Big Thing
« Reply #78 on: July 08, 2011, 03:59:09 PM »
Congratulations, Tom.

Enjoy the upcoming year of Mullen / Polk County, Fla., trips. The courses on both sides of the route will be much anticipated by all of us.

Howard:

My trips to Polk County are mostly done ... we have six holes at Streamsong planted and a bunch more ready for grass.  My travel portfolio for the next year is not so simple though, with projects in China, France, Scotland, Australia, Chicago, Nebraska, and maybe Spain, too.


No rest for the weary. Quite a travel portfolio indeed.  Congrats on all the various projects.
"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke

JNC Lyon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Our Next Big Thing
« Reply #79 on: July 08, 2011, 04:27:33 PM »
Perhaps the greatest statement since "Let there be light?"  Doak has taken architecture to an entirely new level by speaking a top 10 course into existence!

Quote
Big guitars, diamond rings.
Everybody's crazy 'bout the next big thing.

Just kidding you giddy girls.  Sincere congratulations all around.

Mike

Mike that is really funny... Congratulations and best wishes to Chris Johnston and the Dismal River folks.

I enjoyed the Vince Gill quote...
"That's why Oscar can't see that!" - Philip E. "Timmy" Thomas

Mac Plumart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Our Next Big Thing
« Reply #80 on: July 08, 2011, 04:39:27 PM »
My only other suggestion is that with two courses now, I highly recommend a well compensated on-site counsel.   ;D

For that to even be considered, said counsel must be a member of the club. 

Go ahead, punk...Make my day!

 ;D ;D ;D
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

J Sadowsky

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Our Next Big Thing
« Reply #81 on: July 08, 2011, 04:54:48 PM »

As a fun exercise and to help Tom avoid the "Doak" course and the "Nicklaus" course designations, the guys that just got back should propose some names based on the two lay-outs.  While you could see one being called the "River" course, I don't think it is going to be acceptable to name the other "Dismal" - my pathetic attempt at humor - sorry.   You guys can act as a free focus group for the club.

Congratulations Tom.  How much dirt do you anticipate having to move?  Will it be the least amount that you have ever moved?  If so, this corner of the world (along with Ballyneal nearby) could become the modern day minimalist design capital of the golf world.

Michael:

I very much like the name "River course" because that will be the most memorable part of it, and I hate the idea of naming a course after myself -- it's not about me.  But, I know Chris has issues with the name because then he has to come up with a name for the original course that plays off ours.  If anybody comes up with a suggestion that I like and Chris is happy with, I'll give them an autographed copy of the original routing, or hell, even the original itself if they want.

There will not be much dirt to move, especially in the green sites, but there will be a bit of work in the fairways on perhaps six holes.  I think it will take less than Ballyneal, but certainly more than St. Andrews Beach and maybe more than Barnbougle.

Maybe just because I love irreverence, but how about "Old" and "New"? 

Bonus: it will still be funny (judging on a curve) in 100 years.

Mac Plumart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Our Next Big Thing
« Reply #82 on: July 08, 2011, 05:59:16 PM »
The bottom line is that the courses are The Nicklaus Course and The Doak Course at Dismal River.  Why people wouldn't to call them that is beyond me.

But if that isn't an option...#1 and #2 are as good as any. 
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Buck Wolter

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Our Next Big Thing
« Reply #83 on: July 08, 2011, 06:09:06 PM »
I want to be the first to ask
How would you split 10 rounds?


Those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience -- CS Lewis

Michael George

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Our Next Big Thing
« Reply #84 on: July 08, 2011, 06:46:58 PM »

I absolutely hate when golf courses are named after the architect.  I don't blame the architect.  I blame the course.  Let the course stand on its own merit (rather than the architect's name).  I don't think there are any GCA'ers that need the name of the architect on the course to know that he designed it. 

Where are the courses named after Morris, Simpson, Colt, Alison or MacKenzie?  I am sure that there are some, but it cannot be like it is today.  Clearly, Bobby Jones could have called Augusta National, the Bobby Jones Golf Club and it would have been widely accepted.  However, he didn't - Thank God. 

The trend is based purely on a commercial basis and that concerns me.  What is the next thing - golf courses that sell their naming rights for 20 years like NFL, NBA and MLB stadiums.  I can see it now - Berkshire Hathaway Prairie Dunes.
 
"First come my wife and children.  Next comes my profession--the law. Finally, and never as a life in itself, comes golf" - Bob Jones

Mac Plumart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Our Next Big Thing
« Reply #85 on: July 08, 2011, 07:28:37 PM »
Michael...The Bobby Jones Golf Club is located in Atlanta.  Wanna come play it with me?  :)

So, if The Nicklaus Course and The Doak Course at Dismal River brought to by Royal Precision Golf Shafts is out in your book...what are your suggestions?
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Jonathan Cummings

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Our Next Big Thing
« Reply #86 on: July 08, 2011, 08:09:37 PM »
I hope you all appreciate the folks that Chris and Tom had to assauge before going forward with this.  I'll bet it took many phone calls....   JC

Mac Plumart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Our Next Big Thing
« Reply #87 on: July 08, 2011, 09:48:56 PM »
.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2011, 07:15:41 AM by Mac Plumart »
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Rob Rigg

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Our Next Big Thing
« Reply #88 on: July 08, 2011, 09:54:14 PM »
Congrats to everyone involved - My dad was raving about Dismal when I met up with him at Ballyneal - his whole group loved the place and they were very excited to hear about the new course going in along the river - the site is apparently quite spectacular.

It's fantastic to hear that the new course will be very walkable - even if the walker gets dropped off and picked up (or whatever happens). That country is so beautiful that nothing could be better than lugging a sack of sticks around it while chasing a little white ball.

Very tongue in cheek naming would be The Wagon (Nicklaus) and The Trail (Doak) :)

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Our Next Big Thing
« Reply #89 on: July 08, 2011, 11:03:27 PM »
Chris,

My G5 has been in the shop lately. When it's fixed, I'll enter the counsel competition and head out there.
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Tim Bert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Our Next Big Thing
« Reply #90 on: July 08, 2011, 11:53:12 PM »
Re: being designed with walking in mind....

How far away from the 1st hole is the 18th. If I understand the "lasso" comment it seems as if it is potentially a hike. Is there going to be a shuttle or golf carts waiting or just hoof it back?

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Our Next Big Thing
« Reply #91 on: July 09, 2011, 12:05:51 AM »
Since Tom likes 'the river", name the other one "the ranch".
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Our Next Big Thing
« Reply #92 on: July 09, 2011, 12:14:59 AM »
Re: being designed with walking in mind....

How far away from the 1st hole is the 18th. If I understand the "lasso" comment it seems as if it is potentially a hike. Is there going to be a shuttle or golf carts waiting or just hoof it back?

Really?  Even Colton was shuttled at Ballyneal from 18 to 1. 

Chris Johnston

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Our Next Big Thing
« Reply #93 on: July 09, 2011, 12:36:53 AM »
For those who have never been here...carts are your horse - the main form of transportation on the property.  To and from cabins, clubhouse, and courses.  Cars are parked when you arrive and not driven again until you leave.  I guess you have to have been here to understand but, like Sand Hills, both courses are a mile or so from the clubhouse.  

It is a very simple process to shuttle a few carts carts from beginning to end for those who prefer to walk but, even for diehard walkers, the carts are handy for the second 18 or more.  As most play several loops (36-54 holes) each day, carts are invaluable and walking can be a chore even when not above 90 degrees.  I love to walk but not all day for 2-3 days.  I like having a horse available.  I guess I'm "pro choice" here, both walking or riding are just fine and are completely up to the guest.

The best holes are the best holes.  Most players I know want the absolute best holes over beginning and ending at the exact same place.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2011, 12:47:07 AM by Chris Johnston »

Mark Saltzman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Our Next Big Thing
« Reply #94 on: July 09, 2011, 01:14:06 AM »

The best holes are the best holes.  Most players I know want the absolute best holes over beginning and ending at the exact same place.

Well said, CJ.  Couldn't agree more.

Tim Bert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Our Next Big Thing
« Reply #95 on: July 09, 2011, 08:13:43 AM »
Re: being designed with walking in mind....

How far away from the 1st hole is the 18th. If I understand the "lasso" comment it seems as if it is potentially a hike. Is there going to be a shuttle or golf carts waiting or just hoof it back?

Really?  Even Colton was shuttled at Ballyneal from 18 to 1. 

Really what?  I didn't complain about having to take a shuttle. I asked how far apart they are and whether there was a mode of transportation available.

Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Our Next Big Thing
« Reply #96 on: July 09, 2011, 08:32:21 AM »
Chris J:

Quote
The best holes are the best holes.  Most players I know want the absolute best holes over beginning and ending at the exact same place.

What if pursuing the 18 best individual holes compromises the routing with long distances between greens and tees - is there not a interplay between hole quality and routing that needs to be considered, with perhaps a lesser hole included for the sake of a more effective routing?

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Our Next Big Thing
« Reply #97 on: July 09, 2011, 08:50:54 AM »
Chris J:

Quote
The best holes are the best holes.  Most players I know want the absolute best holes over beginning and ending at the exact same place.

What if pursuing the 18 best individual holes compromises the routing with long distances between greens and tees - is there not a interplay between hole quality and routing that needs to be considered, with perhaps a lesser hole included for the sake of a more effective routing?


Luckily this is one of those places where architect and client do not have to agree, as long as the architect is smart enough to work out a bunch of great holes with good connections.

I am sure it is not so important to Chris or to many Dismal River members whether the holes are close together, because they love their carts.  But I'm going to be walking my course until I am just too damned old to walk anymore, and the connections matter a lot to me.  If a course has too long a connection from greens to the tees, you may stop thinking about golf altogether, and we are trying to avoid such breaks.

Most of the holes here have very short connections to at least one of the tees [sometimes the back tee is closest, sometimes the forward tee is closest].  One of the holes I'm wrestling with the most is #1 -- I think it would be a much better short par-5 than the present par-4 that's mowed out, but that would make for an awkward walk back to the best places for the tees on #2, and I hate to have a bad transition right out of the gate.  But, I don't want to settle for a less exciting first hole, either.

One other thing about good connections and walkability -- it may not matter to a given membership, but it certainly matters in the bigger scheme of things.  There is still not a top-50 golf course that's a really hard walk, and I don't plan on trying to make the first.

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Our Next Big Thing
« Reply #98 on: July 09, 2011, 09:31:48 AM »
Tom,

I do hope you build an easy walk. What I don't get is why people care about the distance between 18 green and 1 tee. Even Bandon has shuttles to get walkers from course to course.  Damn that would be cool to have your own cart at Bandon to drive from your room and to and from each course.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2011, 09:39:29 AM by John Kavanaugh »

Rob Rigg

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Our Next Big Thing
« Reply #99 on: July 09, 2011, 10:00:02 AM »

I am sure it is not so important to Chris or to many Dismal River members whether the holes are close together, because they love their carts.  But I'm going to be walking my course until I am just too damned old to walk anymore, and the connections matter a lot to me.  If a course has too long a connection from greens to the tees, you may stop thinking about golf altogether, and we are trying to avoid such breaks.

One other thing about good connections and walkability -- it may not matter to a given membership, but it certainly matters in the bigger scheme of things.  There is still not a top-50 golf course that's a really hard walk, and I don't plan on trying to make the first.
[/quote]

Tom - +1 - I am glad that you and Chris are aligned on the importance of walking on the river course.

I'd be teeing it there from sun up to sun down before driving back to the ranch for some eats.

It sounds like Dismal will have two very strong but distinct golfing experiences which is something that members and guests will really enjoy.

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