Cabot Links -- Setting the Standard?

[Robert Thompson]

I had the good fortune to play 10 holes at Cabot Links last Friday and tour the others, as well as have a beer with Rod "The Great Whit" Whitman, the designer of the course.
Can't say I have a firm position on the course -- too many holes couldn't be played -- but there is a stretch along the ocean -- 14 through 17 that is as good as it gets, and might be the best stretch of consecutive holes in Canada at any place not called Highlands Links.
My write up on the course is here -- http://tinyurl.com/3fznhx5 -- and though I can't come to a full conclusion without a better sense of a couple of holes that remain unfinished, I'd say it is quite a start, and I'll be intrigued at seeing it when it is fully open next year.
 

[Frank M]

Robert,

Although I have not seen the course, can you clarify what you mean by "setting the standard?"

I personally can't fathom how a golf course can set any standard without being complete or open, but maybe I am missing something? Have they accomplished some feat in golf course architecture that has never been accomplished before? Maybe they have redefined what it means to golf?

If you are restricting your definition of "standard" to Canada, maybe I can see your point, but even so...it is an unfinished course. You've only seen a few holes and never really even played the course. Although standards change, I can't believe Cabot Links is so incredible that it can change the standard for world or even Canadian golf architecture in its pre-opening stages.

IMO, the standard in Canadian golf is Highlands Links. The problem is that most other courses have simply failed to meet that standard. This does not change the fact that it IS the standard and far from being jeopardized yet.

[Robert Thompson]

I mean -- is this the course against which others will be judged....

Robert,

Although I have not seen the course, can you clarify what you mean by "setting the standard?"

I personally can't fathom how a golf course can set any standard without being complete or open, but maybe I am missing something? Have they accomplished some feat in golf course architecture that has never been accomplished before? Maybe they have redefined what it means to golf?

Either way, if you are restricting your definition of "standard" to Canada maybe I can see your point, but even so...it is an unfinished course, you've only seen a few holes and never really even played the course. Although standards change, I can't believe Cabot Links is so incredible that it can change the standard for world or even Canadian golf architecture in its pre-opening stages.

IMO, the standard in Canadian golf is Highlands Links....the problem is that most other courses have simply failed to meet that standard. This, however, does not change the fact that it IS the standard and far from being jeopardized yet.

[Mike Nuzzo]

Nice write up Robert

Frank
It is possible to tell the quality by walking ungrassed holes.  He can't publish it is one of the best courses in Canada yet.
It just looks like it is.
I can tell from pictures that it is better golf than Banff and Jasper - it looks a little like my favorite course here.
Congratulations Ben

Robert
When it is too cold up there to play (any day now), come visit us down here...
Cheers

[RJ_Daley]

These photos really just sing,come for the Celtic festival in Oct., stay for the golf!    The course appears just like the flavor of the Irish west coast appearance right down to the little cove with the boats, and the quirky aspect of the clubhouse so oddly close to the 18th.  As a practical matter I doubt they sited that clubhouse there for charm and quirk (maybe I miss my guess).  But, is there a story behind that?  And, was there something of a dilemma or lingering question as to how/where to finish the course's 18th, by the seaside or inland near the road?  Someone in the biz once told me that Whitman had the 'best golf sense' in the construction biz.  So, I figure there were many a philosophical discussion on the merits of the route, and such, given who the principles are in that project.

I did a little google 'street view' tourism from the road next to the course and one can see the land track pretty well pre-construction to get a good idea of what they had to work with.

I hope we can get a gang together for the Celtic festival and golf Oct., 2012. 

[Frank M]

Mike, I'm not saying you cannot get a sense of the quality of a course prior to completion, but there is a difference between quality and setting the "standard." Things can change, and the course, although unlikely considering who is behind it and what they are aiming for, might not play well (i.e. how it is maintained, its playability over time, the quality of other holes on the course etc.). Robert himself points to some aspects of the course which didn't totally convince him they are world class or somewhat plain.

For me, the course has to have an overall sense of cohesion and greatness throughout to set a standard, and all I am saying is that we can't set standards before the course is fully experienced. Doing so is just hype and marketing, which I tend not to buy into. The general media does it and Robert has done it with courses like Goodwood, Coppinwood and Sagebrush in the past. All very good, I would think most agree, but of those three, Highlands still takes the cake for me.

Cabot Links might very well end up being the best course in Canada, but I find it hard to take that it...or any other course...would be THE course by which all other are judged. If there is such a thing, we would have a very limited view when it comes to the art of golf course architecture. There are too many great golf courses on this planet to simply use one as the standard.

[Mark Chaplin]

My guess is TOC, Royal County Down, Ballybunion, Royal St Georges and Royal Porthcawl will not feel too threatened by Cabot Links however good it is. I'd guess they are the collective "The Standard" for GB&I links golf

[Mark Pearce]

My guess is TOC, Royal County Down, Ballybunion, Royal St Georges and Royal Porthcawl will not feel too threatened by Cabot Links however good it is. I'd guess they are the collective "The Standard" for GB&I links golf

Wot, no Muirfield?  How very dare you?

[Mark Chaplin]

Mark - I think the five I have named are possibly the standard in each of the home nations and Ireland. We could debate on all of them but I'll stick my neck out and say that TOC is the standard our links are measured on.

[Melvyn Morrow]

I thought the standards had already been set or are we again moving the goal posts to comply with modern opinions?

Melvyn

[Robert Thompson]

Frank: I did that with Coppinwood and Goodwood? I'd go back and do some more reading. Wasn't crazy about either of those.

As for a "standard," I'm suggesting in Canadian terms it might be the course against which others are judged. Not sure of that yet, as I mentioned three holes weren't even complete when I was there. It looks very good though....

That said, i agree with Frank that Highlands -- or perhaps St. George's -- are the courses against which others in Canada are judged against. I just think Cabot will be in that discussion. Fox Harb'r it ain't....

Nice write up Robert

Frank
It is possible to tell the quality by walking ungrassed holes.  He can't publish it is one of the best courses in Canada yet.
It just looks like it is.
I can tell from pictures that it is better golf than Banff and Jasper - it looks a little like my favorite course here.
Congratulations Ben

Robert
When it is too cold up there to play (any day now), come visit us down here...
Cheers

Mike,

I'm not saying you can't get a sense of the quality of a course prior to completion...but there is a difference between quality and setting THE "standard." Things can change and the course, although unlikely considering who is behind it and what they are aiming for, might not play well (i.e. how it is maintained, its playability over time, the quality of other holes on the course etc.). Robert himself points to some aspects of the course which didn't totally convince him they are world class or somewhat plain.

For me, the course has to have an overall sense of cohesion and greatness throughout to set THE standard and all I am saying is that we can't set standards before the course is fully experienced....doing so is just hype and marketing which I tend not to buy into. The general media does it and Robert has done it with courses like Goodwood, Coppinwood and Sagebrush in the past. Although all very good, I would think most agree, of those three, Highlands still takes the cake...at least I do.

Cabot Links might very well end up being the best course in Canada, but I find it hard to take that it...or any other course...would be THE course by which all other are judged. If there is such a thing, we would have a very limited view when it comes to the art of golf course architecture. There are too many great golf courses on this planet to simply use one as THE standard.

[George Pazin]

Gotta be frustrating to be a writer sometimes. You try to respect your readers by not spelling everything out, and then they go inferring all the wrong things. Oh well.

Very nice piece, Robert.

I love my Canadian friends, and I haven't even met any of them.

[Dale Jackson]

I love my Canadian friends, and I haven't even met any of them.

Then get you American butt up here!!

I agree with George, nice piece Robert, and together with everything else we have heard and seen on here in the past years, Cabot Links is definitely on my radar.

I am off to the other new poster child for Canadian golf, Sagebrush, this weekend, so that will be interesting.

And to tie those two courses together, cudos should also go to our Jeff Mingay, who had had a major role in both.

[Garland Bayley]

...
IMO, the standard in Canadian golf is Highlands Links....the problem is that most other courses have simply failed to meet that standard. This, however, does not change the fact that it IS the standard and far from being jeopardized yet.

...
Cabot Links might very well end up being the best course in Canada, but I find it hard to take that it...or any other course...would be THE course by which all other are judged. If there is such a thing, we would have a very limited view when it comes to the art of golf course architecture. There are too many great golf courses on this planet to simply use one as THE standard.

Are you sure your name is not Patrick Mucci?

[Tom_Doak]

I am off to the other new poster child for Canadian golf, Sagebrush, this weekend, so that will be interesting.

And to tie those two courses together, cudos should also go to our Jeff Mingay, who had had a major role in both.

Dale:

I would think that it would be easier to tie the two courses together with the name of the architect who actually designed them both.  Just because he doesn't post on Golf Club Atlas does not make him less responsible!

[Dale Jackson]

I am off to the other new poster child for Canadian golf, Sagebrush, this weekend, so that will be interesting.

And to tie those two courses together, cudos should also go to our Jeff Mingay, who had had a major role in both.

Dale:

I would think that it would be easier to tie the two courses together with the name of the architect who actually designed them both.  Just because he doesn't post on Golf Club Atlas does not make him less responsible!

Tom, I completely agree, and Robert's first post did mention Rod Whitman.  But Jeff had not been mentioned so I thought I would.  That is not to slag Rob, Ben, Ran or Mike Kaiser in the slightest.

[Adam Clayman]

Let's not forget Dave Axland. He's the PM at Cabot and is also one of the reasons the place will be highly acclaimed.

We need a report on Ian's progress at Highlands?

[John Kirk]

This is a comment about detail, but the picture showing the two greenside bunkers is very nice.  Beautiful bunkering.  The grass appears tucked in around the sand, like a puffy blanket tucked into a bed.

[Frank M]

Robert: You have spoken quite a bit about Coppinwood prior to it opening and also about Goodwood before you ever actually played or reviewed it. You say you aren't crazy about either two, but you stated Goodwood as being "...already in the elite in the country" in your final review.

Note for Goodwood, many of the things you disliked in your review were not apparent until the course was fully realized/completed and you played the course (i.e. the soggy/soft conditions, the weaker opening holes, which make you question the overall routing and flow).

I'm not trying to be critical, I am just saying that you are doing the same thing with Cabot Links praising a golf course before completion and playing the course.

[John Mayhugh]

Thanks for the photos and review.  I was hoping to make a trip to Highland Links this year and possibly come over and see the Cabot preview holes, but looks like time won't cooperate. 

I wonder if opening a few holes early helps or hurts the course in the long run.  I guess it provides some sort of revenue stream as well as a bit of early buzz, but what if first impressions hurt rather than help?  How does early play impact the final grow in? 

[George Pazin]

I wonder if opening a few holes early helps or hurts the course in the long run.  I guess it provides some sort of revenue stream as well as a bit of early buzz, but what if first impressions hurt rather than help?  How does early play impact the final grow in? 

Mike K has a lot of experience doing this, so it's not surprising they are doing it at Cabot. It helps when you have complete confidence in your final product.

Don't know about your grow-in question, it's a good one.

[RJ_Daley]

...I'm not trying to be critical...I am just saying that you are doing the same thing with Cabot Links....multiple posts before completion and fully playing the course...

Frank, your observation is correct in my view about people posting and commenting on quality before projects are completed.  But, as a matter of GCA.com history, that has been going on pretty much from the beginning of this site.  

Many of our most respected posters have gone on trips in advance of official course openings, and have gushed about the quality of certain courses and were hosted by the archies and developers of those projects.  I don't think that is all that troublesome because that is in a way what this discussion site is all about.  It is the passion of most of the serious GCA.com most active participants to get in as much original commentary, and be among the first to discover and herald new exciting course offerings.  It is really part of the fun of participating here, even for those that can't or don't make those early trips to new venues to make their comments.  I can't think of a single course that has come on-line in the last decade of any serious quality and merit that didn't have some or many of our GCA.com participants going there and offering their critique before the places even opened to public or member play.  I also can't think of any of those situations where a course was heralded as great prior to opening that didn't turn out to be among the great ones.  There seems to be a natural phenomenon that each revolution or new movement or happening has a vanguard to herald the new thing.  Some of that is intellectual, or artistic critique, and some of that is just marketting.  The line seems blurred quite often to me.

But, I get your cautionary comments and observations about rhetoric stating that something is the 'new standard' before it is anywhere near ready to be viewed by comparison to the others of high acclaim as a practical matter.  

[George Pazin]

But, I get your cautionary comments and observations about rhetoric stating that something is the 'new standard' before it is anywhere near ready to be viewed by comparison to the others of high acclaim as a practical matter.  

An excellent post, Dick, can't say I disagree with any of it, except for this small but important nitpick: Robert doesn't state Cabot is the new standard, he asks if it may end up being there. I think of it as a provocative question meant to convey both his belief in the course and to foment discussion. If you read the link Robert provided, you will see he is very guarded in his comments.

[RJ_Daley]

Yes George, Robert was sufficiently guarded, and I always enjoy his take on courses of Canada.

Bloggers such as Robert and getting to be quite a high number of other GCA oriented bloggers take it that one step further and 'boldly go where' many armchair archies and posters only wish they could go, and write with enthusiasm about what they discover.   Robert is something of an old hand at the blog scene and has plenty of chops to do that 'guardedly enthusiastic' commentary of a big new thing.  He is probably in the room and can hear everything we are saying about him.... 

[Frank M]

RJ Daley: I am just taken aback by the idea of a golf course that is unfinished setting standards when there are courses in Canada alone that have firmly proven to be great over many many decades. One in particular is not very far from Cabot.

I am sure Cabot will be a good if not great golf course, and I would gush about it all the same if I were in Robert's shoes. I was not trying to be critical it was simply a situation in which Robert's point spurred what I believed to be an important point about standards.