Absolutely LOVING the idea of St. George's for the British Open

[Jay Flemma]

Why would I finish off an English day with something German?  That sounds as bad as listening to Gangsta Rap without ear muffs:)

[McCloskey]

Whatever player gets the best bounces will win the Open this year.
Could virtually be anyone in the field.

[Doug Braunsdorf]

Why would I finish off an English day with something German?  That sounds as bad as listening to Gangsta Rap without ear muffs:)

There's nothing wrong with that 

[Mark Pearce]

Whatever player gets the best bounces will win the Open this year.
Could virtually be anyone in the field.

Rubbish, of course.  Are you Scot Hoch in disguise?

[Kalen Braley]

Whatever player gets the best bounces will win the Open this year.
Could virtually be anyone in the field.

Rubbish, of course.  Are you Scot Hoch in disguise?

I agree with McCloskey in principle here.  When you make the courses too tight....ala Carnoustie, or the bounces too random...ala St. Georges....then you have a higher % of having a one off winner like Paul Lawrie, or Van Velde...who shoulda won.

 It turns much more into luck than actual skill when even the best of the best are trying to hit fairways that look like this.

[Mark Chaplin]

Brent - sprinkler head? 14 is the flattest fairway at RStG as well!

Nicklaus won the Grand Challenge Cup there as an amateur so the course was also kind to him.

Goldy - Prestwick even had part of the bar re-built to hold Metzendorft bottles & claim 1/3 of Scotland's kümmel consumption.

[Michael Goldstein]

Chappas - yes Prestwick also puts up a good kummel showing both pre and post round.

Kalen, have you played RSG? I'm not so sure about the luck factor.  Look at the past results a bit more carefully and you'll see that the great players of the day have done well here.  It's a shame we wont be able to see Tiger put on another 2 iron display in the FF conditions...

[Jay Flemma]

Okay, fine, everyone seems to agree kummel is good - whatever it is - but what about something definitively English?

[Sean_A]

You could always down a few Pimms with a handful of crap (I'll let other explain the crap) thrown in the glass.  That is one drink I never understood the appeal of.  Its so bad one drinks it with a straw - jeepers.

Here we go again with folks talking about lucky bounces.  There is no such thing, there are only bounces.  People chuck the idea luck of around when they don't know the course well enough or can't accept how the lie of the land influences play.  Its this sort of thinking which has led to the entire concept of modern championship golf, which btw is one of the darkest blots on the history of the game.  

Ciao

[Mark Pearce]

kalen,

The thing about RSG is that a smart player, who knows where to put his ball, can minimise (not completely avoid) the bad bounces.  There are areas to put your ball which are less prone to the bad bounce.  As Giles pointed out, in 2003 Curtis spoke to the pro.  He spent time learning where to hit your drives and where to avoid.  It's no coincidence he won.  

If you are stupid enough to turn up, hit the ball anywhere in the fairway and then get pissed because you get "bad" bounces, you aren't a very smart golfer and don't deserve to win.  You will, however, almost certainly blame your outcome on the course, or conditions, rather than asking and answering a far more uncomfortable question.

Carnoustie in 1999 was set up badly.  RSG in 2003 was not and the best golfer that weekend won, no matter how unlikely the fact that it was Ben Curtis.

McCloskey's idiot comment reflected a lack of understanding of links golf and an unwillingness to attempt to understand it, followed by the assumption that because he doesn't understand it, it's flawed.  Hence me wondering if he and Scott Hoch were one and the same.

[Mark Chaplin]

I believe we discovered from the Artisans thread that Kalen has never played golf in the UK so is unlikely to know what a links bounce is like.

That firmest conditions experienced In recent years were at Hoylake so which lucky hacker won there?

There are a few fairways at Sandwich that may bounce the ball towards trouble;

4 - if you are down the left, so hit it right.

9 - a tee shot I've never really grasped. Left with a long iron for the pros, but tougher line in.

12 - past the bunkers. So play short.

17 - the only real dodgy one so the R&A have widened the fairway this time.

I play 90% of my golf on links courses usually see the unlucky bounce and rarely remember a ball skipping around a bunker or getting a good break. Strangely when I play well I get less "bad" bounces.

Sadly Sandwich will be relatively soft this year. Curtis proved taking a local caddy, asking lots of questions about the links and playing sensibly it is possible for the little guy to learn the art of links golf and do extremely well.

[Mark Chaplin]

I'm not aware of any earth moving, RStG has always been a test of driving skills as opposed to a finese course around the greens. The only uneven part of the fairway is The Kitchen but it's only 250yds to clear it.

I believe the pros like Royal Birkdale which is a wonderful course but some if the fairways are like motorways.

Sadly it's wet again so an umbrella maybe the tradition Jay is looking for!

[Jay Flemma]

Well you know what Avenger John Steed said about umbrellas  A man without an umbrella is a man praying for rain...

There's another great English tradition - Boodles! And of course, gin...that seems far more English than kummel.

I love Emma Peel, don't you?

I'm also having a blast laughing at all the stories of the Earl of Sandwich - not only the story of his roast beef sandwich, but the story of the prank one of his Hell Fire Club buddies played with a babboon dressed as a devil.

http://www.wordsources.info/words-mod-sandwich.html

Fellas, I've never had more fun researching a preview piece...

[David Harshbarger]

Both Wolfschmidt and Boodles made appearances in my college days.  Boodles still has a place....Wolfschmidt, not so much.

Go with the Boodles martini Churchill style.  Gin, and for vermouth, let the sun shine through the vermouth bottle into the glass.  Perfect every time.

[Adam Lawrence]

Jay, you should be aware that the only connection between the earls of Sandwich (the Montagu family, actually from Cambridgeshire) is a nominal one; I assume the first earl took the title because of his naval career.

[Scott Warren]

Kalen,

It's a wonder people spend so much time and money travelling to actually play different golf courses when you are able to develop such insight and expertise from behind your keyboard

On which shots at RSG are the bounces "too random"?

[Jay Flemma]

Sadly I can't drink or even smell gin myself.  When I was a junior at Deerfield, when Mr Brush, the corridor master, went to sleep I went up to Wen Brown's room and he and I and Pres McKee and I don't remember who else drank 6 shots of gin...no hangover the next day.

"That was cool I thought," so the next night, we drank 10.

And that was the end of gin for me!!

[Bill_McBride]

Whatever player gets the best bounces will win the Open this year.
Could virtually be anyone in the field.

Rubbish, of course.  Are you Scot Hoch in disguise?

I agree with McCloskey in principle here.  When you make the courses too tight....ala Carnoustie, or the bounces too random...ala St. Georges....then you have a higher % of having a one off winner like Paul Lawrie, or Van Velde...who shoulda won.

 It turns much more into luck than actual skill when even the best of the best are trying to hit fairways that look like this.

Kalen, you lovable knucklehead, that's a walking path out to where the fairways widen out.

And as for wide, yes they are, much wider than U.S. Open fairways, because of the wind.

And as for "bounces too random...." - that's links golf.  Everybody gets 'em, good and bad.   Knowing the angles and where to miss, that's the game, plus knowing how to play the wind.

[jeffwarne]

Here we go again with folks talking about lucky bounces.  There is no such thing, there are only bounces.  People chuck the idea luck of around when they don't know the course well enough or can't accept how the lie of the land influences play.  Its this sort of thinking which has led to the entire concept of modern championship golf, which btw is one of the darkest blots on the history of the game.  

Ciao

+1   +1      there ARE only bounces
Whatever happened to preparation?

[Jay Flemma]

Kalen, Harry Vardon won there twice, Walter Hagen won there twice, and Bobby Locke  as well...and those were all before the Pennick changes smoothed many of the blind shots and uneven lies. Sure, Bill Rogers was strange, but Ben Curtis may have been the best prepared and most phlegmatic player in the field.  Plus he's won four tournaments - he's no Van de Velde or Hamilton.  And the year Norman won, he beat a "Who's who in golf" of the age.  Lots of low scores get posted at St. George's too, so we stand a better than even chance of getting a great champion  as we do a weirdo.  Is it predictable?  Of course not.  Will it be a more fun golf course to see than either Congressional or Atlanta?  No question.

[David Harshbarger]

Sadly I can't drink or even smell gin myself.  When I was a junior at Deerfield, when Mr Brush, the corridor master, went to sleep I went up to Wen Brown's room and he and I and Pres McKee and I don't remember who else drank 6 shots of gin...no hangover the next day.

"That was cool I thought," so the next night, we drank 10.

And that was the end of gin for me!!

151 and Pina Colada mix.....Pina Coladas no more.  That's an easier loss than gin, I think.

Jay, I was seriously considering the Tallgrass offer and it hurts even more now, connecting threads, that I just can't swing the day.  And a beautiful weekend, to boot. 

[Jay Flemma]

Can you swing Monday?

[David_Tepper]

Geoff Ogilvy's column in this week's GolfWorld "British Open Preview" edition begins:

"The funny thing about Royal St. George's is that it doesn't seem to be anyone's favorite course. It certainly isn't mine."

[Ed Tilley]

In my opinion RSG consistently produces the best leaderboards of any Open venue. It always seems to have loads of big names up there. Top 5 in the 4 'modern' Opens at RSG were:

2003 - Curtis, Singh, Bjorn, Woods, Love
1993 - Norman, Faldo, Langer, Pavin, Senior
1985 - Lyle, Stewart, Langer, Graham, O'Meara
1981 - Rogers, Langer, Floyd, James, Torrance