[David Kelly]

Richard,

For example if you hit into the grass surrounding this bunker would there be a chance for a lost ball?

[Mark Saltzman]

So how many balls did you lose today?   

P.S.  I really liked the course, its just a tough mother!!

I think 6.  I lost 1 on 3, 2 on 5 and 2 on 6.  I was 5 balls down after 6.

I liked the course too, but like you, I have no real desire to return (it is just too hard).  I found there was just no let-up on the course.  If you're not playing well (I wasn't) it feels like every single tee shot could result in a lost ball.  And then even if you don't lose the ball off the tee, you still have a good chance of losing one on the approach.  I was really impressed by the green contouring, though I felt the green sizes were too small given the difficulty of the approaches.  I will do a full photo tour at some point.

[Richard Choi]

Rich, most of your post (except the complaints about the long grass) seemed like you enjoyed Awarii. Did you not like the course, or is it just that you do not think it is of the same quality as the other options?

I wouldn't go so far as to say I enjoyed the course, Mark. I will say I appreciated the architecture. I do believe the design is quite good.

I don't even mind shooting a sky high score. That really does not bother me when rating courses. But my biggest pet peeve is lost ball. I am fine for punishing poor shots, but I don't agree it should be an automatic lost ball.

I refuse to go back because other courses in the area are much better and I don't want to reward a management that thinks roughs like this is a great way to raise a slope rating.

[Kalen Braley]

So how many balls did you lose today?   

P.S.  I really liked the course, its just a tough mother!!

I think 6.  I lost 1 on 3, 2 on 5 and 2 on 6.  I was 5 balls down after 6.

I liked the course too, but like you, I have no real desire to return (it is just too hard).  I found there was just no let-up on the course.  If you're not playing well (I wasn't) it feels like every single tee shot could result in a lost ball.  And then even if you don't lose the ball off the tee, you still have a good chance of losing one on the approach.  I was really impressed by the green contouring, though I felt the green sizes were too small given the difficulty of the approaches.  I will do a full photo tour at some point.

The only break is when you have that par 5 and par 4 as you transition back towards the river and lower parts of the property.  At least you have a little bit of space to work with.  I stopped counting, but figured I shot about 115 the day I played it.

[Richard Choi]

Richard,

For example if you hit into the grass surrounding this bunker would there be a chance for a lost ball?

Yes, I lost a couple of balls hitting into a hazard just like the one in the picture. I even saw exactly where it rolled in and I could not find it.

It is unbelievably thick.

[John Kavanaugh]

I don't understand why you think the owners grew the rough and fescue purposely thick to raise the slope rating to seduce the better player.  Do you realize that if they red staked the fescue the slope rating would go even higher while making the course easier?  The thickness is simply a function of the grow in period as overspray from watering the new fairways naturally drifts.

Your premise is insulting to the owners and good players alike.

[David Kelly]

Richard,

For example if you hit into the grass surrounding this bunker would there be a chance for a lost ball?

Yes, I lost a couple of balls hitting into a hazard just like the one in the picture. I even saw exactly where it rolled in and I could not find it.

It is unbelievably thick.

Then that's a problem but hopefully as JK says this is the result of the grow-in process and the course will be able to be maintained better when more mature.

Having said that, I think that if they are charging full price to play the course then their customers have every right to judge the course based on the conditions they encounter.

[John Kavanaugh]

Richard,

For example if you hit into the grass surrounding this bunker would there be a chance for a lost ball?

Yes, I lost a couple of balls hitting into a hazard just like the one in the picture. I even saw exactly where it rolled in and I could not find it.

It is unbelievably thick.

Then that's a problem but hopefully as JK says this is the result of the grown-in process and the course will be able to maintained better when more mature.

Having said that, I think that if they are charging full price to play the course then their customers have every right to judge the course based on the conditions they encounter.

David,

I was the first stay and play customer at the course.  I of course payed the full rate that we agreed upon. Soon after I arrived home I received an email saying they had reduced prices for the summer. This year they are no longer charging full price or requiring a non-member stay to play.

I have no idea what the other posters paid.

[Tom_Doak]

Okay, now I see what John Kavanaugh was complaining about on the other thread.

Let's talk a bit about the realities of grow-in.  It's a huge, daunting task.  Superintendents are trained to believe their reputations depend on the quality of their greens first, and they worry about full coverage in the fairways second.  The roughs are WAY down on their list of priorities; eventually they will get back and either adjust the irrigation or mow down the areas which get too much of it, as Dismal River has done in the past year, but I have not often seen superintendents focus on this before opening day.  [Ballyneal was a rare exception.]  Plus, to some extent, FOOT TRAFFIC will help to thin out the near roughs, but a new course has not benefitted from any traffic yet.

I can understand why someone like Richard would be frustrated with the conditions he played in, but that should not be enough to draw the conclusions that he did -- that he would probably never go back.  But, it's a very tough neighborhood, and it's imperative to build a really good course if you don't want to be passed by on the way west.

[Matt Kardash]

These bunkers seem to be one of the best examples of those "natural dunesy bunkers". Most of the time I find jagged bunkers look like they were given a ton of thought, these one's look purposely shitty, but shitty in the best possible way! I dig.
The course looks bold as hell with all the contours. Could be a ton of fun, or it could be nuts!

[Adam Clayman]

Richard, There's more to the story about the maintenance there, you should know, but I can't tell you (in Public). I feel like the owner deserves the right to do what he can with what he has. It will take time to get everything right. I'm pretty certain the conditions are not intended the way you characterized or surmised them.

[John Kavanaugh]

I had forgot but just got my handicap update today and the Course Rating and Slope for Awarii is 70.4/122.  Good for me as I shot (posted) 77 and it didn't lower my already vanity handicap.  We played between tornado bookends and remember hitting four iron from 150 as the greens are huge and the ground game works.

The course will clearly be a top 100 place to play in three years.  There is absolutely nothing that money, time and a good set of blinders won't fix.

There was a touch of genius in Matt Ward asking slope and rating of a course.  I could have saved Awarii some unwarranted speculation.  Those of us who occasionally play in club events would love such a low rating on a serious course.

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