Scottish Open at Castle Stuart

[Jordan Caron]

That slide in insane! 

As a side note, does anyone feel that the GC commentators are "pushing" and talking and awful lot about CS.  I understand this usually happens at new venues but from what I watched so far it seems they're slobbering over the course and views a bit much.

[RJ_Daley]

This brings back memories of Arcadia Bluffs landslide.  Also a "not-links". 

[David_Tepper]

Word is they had 3 inches of rain in 2 hours.

[Link Walsh]

It's amazing to me that the gorse on the hillside didn't hold all the land up in spite of the rain.  I'm from Georgia, and the red clay here just doesn't slide.  Sorry to see the damage.

[RJ_Daley]

What was that FW corridor prior to the construction of the GC?  Frankly, it looks like the brush and tree vegitation probably was originally across the area where the FW traverses.  If they did some of these hole corridors similar to Whistling Straits, where they basically excavated and scraped the lower level to get fill and material for feature work on upper level, or benched/stairstepped a flat corridor in the slope, without something underneath to shore up the weight of the rest of the hillside above... well that is an awful lot of weight on loose and newly disturbed ground.

Maybe this isn't all that uncommon to new courses on slopes.  What did they call it before Trump bought it, Ocean Trails?  That was the Dye construction group.  Not exactly chimps when it comes to construction.  The lawsuits the ensued over Arcadia Bluffs brought out some construction technique lessons.  I'm not so sure that Warren Henderson recovered his biz after the event.  The event was a freak at AB.  Yet, there were apparent lessons to be learned about drainage and hillside support, etc.  Didn't they have a landslide at Valley Club of Montecito that altered #15 or 16 many years ago?  These things happen, but it might be contentious in the aftermath.  

I really think Gil is a fine architect.   I hope Gil weathers this issue because it isn't the first nor will it be the last time such will occur.  I think it comes with the newly constructed landscape activity, whether it is a golf course or other development.  Another of our favorite courses was built on the "Missouri Breaks" and sure enough, it breaks.  

Now this is a whole separate issue IMO from the "model" of a CCFAD effect on the local golf scene topic we bantered around earlier in the tread.  

[David Kelly]

In 2009 I was flooded out of a round at Carnoustie and was staying at Rusacks and saw standing water on the Old Course that lasted much of the day.

It happens.

[RJ_Daley]

a blog site that examines landslides, many on newly developed courses:

http://wncsos.blogspot.com/2011/01/landslide-concerns-cliffs-at-high.html

These are GCA architects worse nightmares.  Sometimes we forget in our enthusiasm for seeking out new and interesting GC design and play opportunities, that a real and serious biz is behind the making of these courses.  The more extreme and unnatural to the environment, requiring great earthwork and disturbance, the bigger the worry. 

There are also great safety concerns that these constructors and archies have to worry about while the course is being built.  I know of one construction company that was set back for years with an accident trench cave-in that killed two guys and the lawsuits that followed.  Take the new courses in the sand hills.... it is dangerous for the workers being in the bottom of a newly opened hole, trench, or maybe even that monster bunker that looks so ominous and cool to us who play the course later and say, wow! 

Some of the clean-up photos at CS are impressive, how they are getting after the task so agressively and effectively.  I wish them good luck. 

[Reef Wilson]

What was that FW corridor prior to the construction of the GC?

Handily enough, google satellite images still show the property pre-contruction and that lower level along the water was clearly already there with the same gorse bushes also there.

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=castle+stuart+golf&ll=57.52382,-4.111011&spn=0.009793,0.033023&fb=1&gl=us&cid=0,0,2072996949913596100&t=h&z=16&iwloc=A

[David_Tepper]

"As a side note, does anyone feel that the GC commentators are "pushing" and talking and awful lot about CS.  I understand this usually happens at new venues but from what I watched so far it seems they're slobbering over the course and views a bit much."

Jordan Caron -

Should you be fortunate enough to get to Castle Stuart some day, I think you will find the comments are justified.

DT

[Jon Wiggett]

RJ Daley,

the gorse and slope are original. It has just been an awful lot of rain iat CS. Apparently at Nairn it didn't rain and where I am just 10 miles north we had just a light shower.

I am sure that Chris Haspell and his team will get the course back into shape real quick

Jon

[Jordan Caron]

"As a side note, does anyone feel that the GC commentators are "pushing" and talking and awful lot about CS.  I understand this usually happens at new venues but from what I watched so far it seems they're slobbering over the course and views a bit much."

Jordan Caron -

Should you be fortunate enough to get to Castle Stuart some day, I think you will find the comments are justified.

DT

David,

I understand that the comments are justified but I feel like they're trying hard to "sell" me on it. 

[Kris Shreiner]

Well the heavy rain that wrecked havoc on the course was certainly not what CS or the Scottish Open needed for their debut up there. Those landslide blowouts can occur almost anywhere, though the height and steepness depicted in what was pictured would make those particular spots more prone to erosion or collapse.

I do think that the depth of sand capping over other soil profiles and the type of drainage employed,if any, would certainly influence the perk rate and recovery time to playable conditions. In the case of faux -links construction, freakish amounts of rain would make those courses more vulnerable to what occurred.
 
I remember playing the Jubliee and Old Course, Dornoch and Brora during and after very heavy rains and while there would be some puddles in gullies or swale bases, the courses would generally be standing-water free by the next day at most. This was a deluge that fell at a record rate though, so even a true links course would have had some difficulty absorbing that amount of water without impacts.

In the end, Mother Nature always holds the upper hand. Perhaps next year she will be kinder to CS and the Scottish Open.
The  -20 that was mentioned as possible would have been blown by had the tournament gone the distance in the meek conditions that would have resulted. Calling it might have been a blessing.   

[George Freeman]

In his acceptance speech, Luke Donald mentioned that the true heroes of the week were the grounds staff and all the volunteers from all over the highlands who helped to get the course playable after the rain.

I hadn't seen any photos of the course after the storm.  They are unbelievable!  It is stunning that they were able to play golf a day later.  Congrats to the team!

[PCCraig]

A very nice win by Luke this week...

I thought the course looked great, and a big improvement over the usual parkland Scottish Open host sites!

[Niall C]

I haven't been on here since Saturday morning so its interesting to read all the comments since I've been away.

I was at the course at 7am on the Saturday morning and was told the course was definitely shut until 2pm and that they would make a decision at 12.30 as to whether to play. Some of the car parks were closed at that point due to flooding and I mistakenly assumed that that was the cause for the delay. Given the time delay I headed home and it was amazing that the roads were dry on the other side of the airport only a couple of miles away.

I got back after 1pm when play was then supposed to start at 3pm. and the start time then kept getting pushed back until the got all the players on the course for a 7.30 start. At that point one player on hole 8 complained it was unplayable and John Paramour agreed and that was that.

From where I was standing on the 17th tee I could see the 12th and it still had an awful lot of casual water despite the best efforts of the green staff during the day. That was probably one of the worst as thats one of the lower holes which has all the water dumping on it from above. From walking around the course during the afternoon I have to say the course stood up really well and the fairways and off course parts were largely fine. If anyone thinks a "true links" course would have faired any better then IMHO they are kidding themselves. It was the threat of lightening on the friday that stopped play then, and the relatively minor landslides that occurred on the saturday morning stopped play for safety reasons. The volume of water that continued to fall really didn't give the course a chance to dry out although by sunday, with a few isolated spots excepted the course was back in fine fettle.

That was largely down to the greenstaff, not only from CS, but from TOC, Kingsbarns, and all the surrounding courses. I hesitate to use the word heroic when young men and women are dying for Queen and country on the other side of the world, but what they achieved was really exceptional. All of them had been working 17 hour shifts.

One thing I would say about the landslides, which as I say were relatively minor in the sense of the amount of land movement, is that they were very probably caused by the building of the golf course in that the shaping of the ground above and the channelling of water to certain parts mean't that certain areas which maybe didn't have that amount of water exposure previously gave way under the increased weight. I dare say there are more knowledgable folk on here who could advise on that one.

Niall

[David_Tepper]

Niall -

Thanks for the report.

There is a lengthy article in The Scotsman today recapping what happened to the course due to the weather:

http://sport.scotsman.com/golf/Scottish-Open-Soggy-Saturday-won39t.6799349.jp?articlepage=1

It appears there were some restrictions as to what kind a drainage could be incorporated into building course due to the fact that some areas of the property were designated as sites of special scientific interest (SSI).

For those who have not been to the course, the slopes separating the upper and lower levels of the course (which have likely been there for thousands of years) are very high and very steep. They are more extreme than the slopes to the right of the 9th & 11th fairways at Royal Dornoch.

DT

[Bill Gayne]

Yes, links course do form puddles and fllood. I've even see puddling and water logged turf conditions at Royal County Down on the back nine.

Another famous "real" links.

[Sean_A]

We can never know for sure how well the course held up because an army of guys cleared most of the water.  I have never heard of such a clearing operation on a links, but I could be wrong.  I have seen links very wet and fine later in the day or the next day with the odd residual water pockets.  But I have also seen a few where the bunkers didn't clear very well and were unplayable the next day - Harlech and Conwy come to mind.  Just because a course is a links doesn't mean it doesn't have a high water table in spots.  Burnham too suffers from a high water table on a few holes and I can guarantee you one hole would be a lake with the sort of rain experienced at CS. It would likely take a 24 period for natural drainage to make it somewhat playable.   

Ciao 

[Alister Matheson]

Guys ,
        Lets stop talking about drainage the whole course and especially the greens drain just as good if not better than any links course , i dont think many of you guys have a clue what 5 inch of rain in 24hours would do to your own course.
     
 What i found really interesting  was seeing these guys having to get creative around the greens it was refreshing to see them playing some bump and run through hollows up braes and around eye brows !

Even with hellish weather i think this tournament is the best thing ever to have happened in the Highlands.
Yes it was even better than watching Inverness beating Celtic in the Cup !

Long may it continue

Alister