Scottish Open at Castle Stuart

[Jim Nelson]

I think the point is that it is not a true links course because, like Kingsbarns, it is built on recycled farmland and not actual links land. Its playing characteristics will therefore not be truely links like.

I know, I know the definition of a links course is that it has to be built on links land, but if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, isn't it a duck? If it is built on sandy soil and uses fescue turf and maintained firm and fast, but is not in the land between the sea and agricultural land, can it not be called a links course?  isn't it really about how the course plays rather than its physical location?  Purist would say its the later.  I believe it is the former.  Watching the play at CS this am, it seemed like players were able to play their shots short and have them run up, at least during the brief time I was watching.  I would have to play it to get a feel, but I think this whole debate is interesting.

[Brian Freeman]

Anyone see the poor decision Phil made from the right of 14?  Short-sided himself and made double trying to flop it twice.  That was such a great links moment.  Phil has got to add that low shot to his arsenal - old habits die hard though.

[Jim Nelson]

Anyone see the poor decision Phil made from the right of 14?  Short-sided himself and made double trying to flop it twice.  That was such a great links moment.  Phil has got to add that low shot to his arsenal - old habits die hard though.

And Padraig just putted it from way off the green. 

[Adrian_Stiff]

Course looks lovely on TV. It will raise the profile and interest to Mr Average to the courses we all love on this site.

[Jordan Caron]

I think the point is that it is not a true links course because, like Kingsbarns, it is built on recycled farmland and not actual links land. Its playing characteristics will therefore not be truely links like.

Are there any true links courses that have been built in the last 30 years? 

David

You may not realise that being Scottish allows us the independence of free thought, so we make up our own minds.

Doesn't everyone in society have the independence for free thought?  Are you implying that some of us are brainwashed or persuaded to think a certain way?

Anyone see the poor decision Phil made from the right of 14?  Short-sided himself and made double trying to flop it twice.  That was such a great links moment.  Phil has got to add that low shot to his arsenal - old habits die hard though.

So much for Phil changing up his short game strategy like he talked about early in the week!

[Peter Pallotta]

Wow, high praise indeed from Phil M:

“It's about fun, creativity, memorable shots, holes, challenges and it doesn't have to beat you up all the time. I think they have it just right and I hope that other architects learn from him. It should almost be a prerequisite to play Castle Stuart before you're allowed to design golf courses nowadays.”

[Anthony Gray]

I think the point is that it is not a true links course because, like Kingsbarns, it is built on recycled farmland and not actual links land. Its playing characteristics will therefore not be truely links like.

  Its fast and firm with seaside conditions and lots of movement around the greens.It is links golf.

  Anthony

[Anthony Gray]

  The only inconsistency with CS is that the fairways are flatter than most links courses and don''t have the rolling features. It is simply a wonderful course that is difficult to ctiticize.

  Anthony

[Niall C]

48 of the 78 morning starters are currently under par with three tied for the lead on -5.  Any idea what the weather is like?

A decent breeze with the odd squally shower. Usual summer in Scotland type stuff.

Niall

[Niall C]

So it's going to get easier?  Winning scor could well be -20 or better.

Interesting to see C Montomerie and M Campbell in the current top 10.  Can't imagine they've shared top 10 slots for a good few years.

Mark

I'm down at CS marshalling and was there yesterday for the pro-am. Campbell comes off the green I'm at and smiles and hands me his ball which I thought was a really nice gesture. A little while later I'm in the oncourse bookies and decide toback him and get 250/1 E/W. Imagine my delight when he gets to my hole (17th) this morning and is 4 under. Unfortunately he then bogies but never mind he's still in the hunt.

Niall

[Niall C]

Mike

CS isn't going to damage local golf or the local economy. The local members clubs are still operating on the usual model which is to cover your costs for the year, the bulk of which is covered by members subs which are fairly low. For that you get a far less manicured course and far less of a service than you get at a country club. Yes, some members clubs make a lot out of visitors fees including Western Gailes (thats for you Chappers  ) but for the vast majority its a small opercentage of their turnover.

Currently golf clubs a short distance away in Moray are suffering because of lack of members which is primarily due to the local economy and the loss of a huge number of defence jobs. Increased income from visitors fees resulting from CS can only be a good thing, it certainly won't turn the clubs into pay and play type operations. They will always be modest members clubs.

Niall

[Anthony Gray]

  What are the players saying about the course?

  Anthony

[Tony_Muldoon]

  What are the players saying about the course?

  Anthony

Err the ones who scored well are having to meet the press, and guess waht THEY love "links golf!"

Enjoyed the debate, but writing as someone who's never been it does photgraph beautifully.  Mr Parsinen is one very clever chap. Living the dream.


Highlights avaible now on the BBC website. UK guys only.

[Kris Shreiner]

Jordan Caron,

Yes. Machrihanish Dunes is the genuine article. Kidd could have tempered the greens a little and some complain about excessive blindness on some shots. These concerns may be valid. I've only walked the ground during construction, when it was about 70% completed, so I'd have to walk and play it some to give a better read.

The course got slammed by some that didn't want to understand the raw presentation was a given, due to the extreme limitations of earthmoving, centered around to the parcel's environmental sensitivity. The folks that were making many of the marketing and publicity decisions didn't help matters and not having a quality caddie program to guide early course reviewers, raters and press around what is a testing course insured it would be off to a rough start...which predictably resulted.

It's a shame, as the region and other golf offerings, such as Machrihanish and Dunaverty are fun to play and could yield a wonderful destination setting with the rght team to sort things properly. Give it time and then make the trip. If you love remote, unspoiled links golf in an awesome, subdued environment...it really gets no better than the Mull of Kintyre!

Cheers,
Kris

[Scott Warren]

I'm somewhat concerned for the reaction next week at Sandwich from players who have tuned yp with wide, flat fairways (at least comparitively) at Castle Stuart. There could be some backlash along the lines of "this is unfair, too bumpy, too much "luck" involved etc).

Has anyone ever heard Paddy Harrington react with anything other than full-force enthusiasm for a new course? He loves the new TPC Virginia Water as well (you know, the course that used to be Wentworth West ).

[Neil_Crafter]

Mark

I'm down at CS marshalling and was there yesterday for the pro-am. Campbell comes off the green I'm at and smiles and hands me his ball which I thought was a really nice gesture. A little while later I'm in the oncourse bookies and decide toback him and get 250/1 E/W. Imagine my delight when he gets to my hole (17th) this morning and is 4 under. Unfortunately he then bogies but never mind he's still in the hunt.

Niall
[/quote]

And how much did you put on at 250 to 1? 

[DMoriarty]

Interesting discussion.  I haven't played CS, but watching some of the coverage on television, I have come to believe that anyone who thinks that the golf at CS is anything like an American CCFAD has obviously not golfed in the US much.  I wish it was the usual CCFAD experience over here. 

That is not to say anything about the business model, the price, or whether it qualifies as real links golf, but it sure looks like fun to play. 

[David Kelly]

Phil has mentioned how much he likes Gil Hanse's work before and was impressed by what Gil did at TPC Boston.  If he likes Hanse so much he should come up to Rustic Canyon one day and let Moriarty and me teach him about left handed golf. Phil and me vs. Moriarty and Lynn S.

[Mark Chaplin]

Niall that situation was resolved to everyone's satisfaction.

Played Deal yesterday against a Royal Melbourne team, despite all the rain it is still very firm. However the toughie very tame, I imagine the protected ones will enjoy RStG a little more as the odd hard bounce will not find deep rough.

[DMoriarty]

Phil has mentioned how much he likes Gil Hanse's work before and was impressed by what Gil did at TPC Boston.  If he likes Hanse so much he should come up to Rustic Canyon one day and let Moriarty and me teach him about left handed golf. Phil and me vs. Moriarty and Lynn S.

Sounds fair.  It only makes sense to pair Phil with the hack. 

[SL_Solow]

Daves,  Four lefties in one group?  As a former intruder, that is a match I would like to see.  Still hoping to come back one day to give you a chance to even up.

[Adrian_Stiff]

There is no doubt in the SKY tv team that this is a links golf course. From my TV it certainly looks links too (fake or not).

[David_Tepper]

It is nice to see there are actually 3 Scots in the top-10 (2 tied for the lead!) halfway thru the Scottish Open. Maybe Castle Stuart is a "local" course after all.  

[Matt MacIver]

RD, Aberdeen and Cruden Bay were the reasons for me to look forward to playing in the Highlands one day; I would have rounded out the trip with the usual other suspects, but now one will be replaced by CS.  It looks spectacular and I doubt it will cost more than any other Rota course. 

If the Scottish Open is deemed successful from a marketing/business perspective, does that mean RD could potentially host an Open?  Or is that an appropriate apples-apples comparison. 

Has the golfing landscape in Scotland changed?  Why would I play a potential CCFAD like CS?  Because it sounds like an awesome place.  In fact both Loch Lomond and Renaissance sound awesome too...but I can't play them because they're private...

[Gary Slatter]

There is no doubt in the SKY tv team that this is a links golf course. From my TV it certainly looks links too (fake or not).

Geo Peper and Malcolm Campbell in TRUE LINKS say that it is a links course.   Amazing TV the past two weeks, Old MacDonald vs Castle Stuart.  Which one would be more fun for $300.00?