News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Scottish Open at Castle Stuart
« on: July 04, 2011, 02:49:43 PM »
I'm looking forward to the pro's visiting Castle Stuart in the next few days and seeing what they make of it. Mark Parsinen was quoted in the newspapers the other week saying that he would be quite happy with a winning score of 20 under which was good to hear. As with all sea side courses the weather will largely dictate and unfortunately we are in for some mixed weather over the next few days.

Given that more than a few of the players are playing this event as a warm up to the Open, I wonder how acclimatised they will manage to get. Anyone played RSG and CS, and how do they compare ?

Niall

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Scottish Open at Castle Stuart
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2011, 02:51:04 PM »
...forgot to add, if anyone else is going let me know.

Niall

Adrian_Stiff

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Scottish Open at Castle Stuart
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2011, 03:15:20 PM »
Inverness is as hard to get to as New York for me, but I am really looking forward to seeing it and hearing the opine.
A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
The Players Club, Cumberwell Park, The Kendleshire, Oake Manor, Dainton Park, Forest Hills, Erlestoke, St Cleres.
www.theplayersgolfclub.com

Adam Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Scottish Open at Castle Stuart
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2011, 03:53:31 PM »
Adrian - it's not really that hard, is it? Easyjet flies direct from Bristol to Inverness, journey time one hour and twenty minutes (not that I'd blame you for wanting to avoid the orange monstrosity!)
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Michael George

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Scottish Open at Castle Stuart
« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2011, 04:12:00 PM »
For 2 weeks in a row, I will be watching the golf channel due to the course being played, rather than the competition. 

With 5 kids, not sure when I will be getting over there, but it sure is pretty high on my list.

"First come my wife and children.  Next comes my profession--the law. Finally, and never as a life in itself, comes golf" - Bob Jones

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Scottish Open at Castle Stuart
« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2011, 04:35:56 PM »
Brief preview of the event & the course in the online edition of GolfWorld:

http://www.golfworldmonday.com/golfworldmonday/20110704?sub_id=Zu8yJ1Id9hj8#pg10

Brief aerial tour of the course: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYpNXNNtGCc&feature=related

I really do hope they get a couple of windy days for the tournament.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2011, 04:43:30 PM by David_Tepper »

Simon Holt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Scottish Open at Castle Stuart
« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2011, 04:47:26 PM »
I cant wait to see the course on TV.  Hopefully I will get up there soon!
2011 highlights- Royal Aberdeen, Loch Lomond, Moray Old, NGLA (always a pleasure), Muirfield Village, Saucon Valley, watching the new holes coming along at The Renaissance Club.

Adrian_Stiff

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Scottish Open at Castle Stuart
« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2011, 05:52:50 PM »
Adrian - it's not really that hard, is it? Easyjet flies direct from Bristol to Inverness, journey time one hour and twenty minutes (not that I'd blame you for wanting to avoid the orange monstrosity!)
Adam - The times are not good from Bristol.... flights about 12.30  make it hard to much before/ after. If I fly to Edinburgh or Glasgow, Dublin, Belfast I can leave early and be there by 9 and with second flights in the day come back late second day. Getting groups to 2 day golf and 1 night stay is ok. It really means a 3 dayer to go to Inverness, I cant get anyone to do it. Inverness might be different from other regionals, it is miles by car.
A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
The Players Club, Cumberwell Park, The Kendleshire, Oake Manor, Dainton Park, Forest Hills, Erlestoke, St Cleres.
www.theplayersgolfclub.com

Michael Whitaker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Scottish Open at Castle Stuart
« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2011, 06:03:15 PM »
I'm reluctant to do it, but I'm going to stick my head in the noose about Castle Stuart one more time...

Castle Stuart is a beautiful course and it will look magnificent on television. It should... it was created with photography and TV in mind in order to "sell" it on the web, in magazines and on the tube.

However... Castle Stuart is NOT a links course. The only thing it has in common with RStG is that they are both hard by the sea and are subject to wide variances in the wind.

Castle Stuart will not provide a tuneup for RStG as it has much more in common Arcadia Bluffs in Michigan than it does with RStG.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2011, 03:26:59 AM by Michael Whitaker »
"Solving the paradox of proportionality is the heart of golf architecture."  - Tom Doak (11/20/05)

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Scottish Open at Castle Stuart
« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2011, 06:14:40 PM »
I'm reluctant to do it, but I'm going to stick my head in the noose about Castle Stuart one more time...

Castle Stuart is a beautiful course and it will look magnificent on television. It should... it was created with photography and TV in mind in order to "sell" it on the web, in magazines and on the tube.

However... Castle Stuart is NOT a links course. The only thing it has in common with RStG is that they are both hard by the sea and are subject to wide variances in the wind.

Castle Stuart will not provide a tuneup for RStG as it has much more in common Arcadia Shores in Michigan than it does with RStG.



Was Mayhugh this contentious? ;D
Let's make GCA grate again!

Michael Whitaker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Scottish Open at Castle Stuart
« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2011, 06:40:47 PM »
Was Mayhugh this contentious? ;D

No. That's why he gets invited to return visits!
"Solving the paradox of proportionality is the heart of golf architecture."  - Tom Doak (11/20/05)

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Scottish Open at Castle Stuart
« Reply #11 on: July 04, 2011, 11:18:03 PM »
I know Mike W. and I have differing views of Castle Stuart. While I have never seen RSG, I am aware it has the reputation of having some of the humpiest & bumpiest fairways among the Open Rota courses. The fairways at CS are much smoother.

However, I do think that, around the greens, CS plays very links-like. The humps, hollows and bunkering surrounding the greens are similar to what you would find on most links.   

James Boon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Scottish Open at Castle Stuart
« Reply #12 on: July 05, 2011, 04:13:37 AM »
I loved Castle Stuart when I played there not long after opening and I can't wait to see it on TV.

In the mean time for those who don't know much of the course, here are a few photo tours:
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,44471.0.html
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,42035.0.html

Cheers,

James
2023 Highlights: Hollinwell, Brora, Parkstone, Cavendish, Hallamshire, Sandmoor, Moortown, Elie, Crail, St Andrews (Himalayas & Eden), Chantilly, M, Hardelot Les Pins

"It celebrates the unadulterated pleasure of being in a dialogue with nature while knocking a ball round on foot." Richard Pennell

James Boon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Scottish Open at Castle Stuart
« Reply #13 on: July 05, 2011, 04:13:50 AM »


I'm reluctant to do it, but I'm going to stick my head in the noose about Castle Stuart one more time...

Castle Stuart is a beautiful course and it will look magnificent on television. It should... it was created with photography and TV in mind in order to "sell" it on the web, in magazines and on the tube.

However... Castle Stuart is NOT a links course. The only thing it has in common with RStG is that they are both hard by the sea and are subject to wide variances in the wind.

Castle Stuart will not provide a tuneup for RStG as it has much more in common Arcadia Bluffs in Michigan than it does with RStG.


Its got to be a better tune up than Loch Lomond though hasn't it Mike?

Cheers,

James
2023 Highlights: Hollinwell, Brora, Parkstone, Cavendish, Hallamshire, Sandmoor, Moortown, Elie, Crail, St Andrews (Himalayas & Eden), Chantilly, M, Hardelot Les Pins

"It celebrates the unadulterated pleasure of being in a dialogue with nature while knocking a ball round on foot." Richard Pennell

Jonathan Cummings

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Scottish Open at Castle Stuart
« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2011, 06:09:43 AM »
Links or no links too many folks whose opinions I respect say CS is the cat's meow.  I'm taking 7 pals to play it in Sept - can't wait!  JC

Brian_Ewen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Scottish Open at Castle Stuart
« Reply #15 on: July 05, 2011, 08:39:44 AM »
Designer tips Castle Stuart event to spark Trump's envy
Published Date: 05 July 2011
By Martin Dempster

MARK Parsinen, who co- designed Castle Stuart, has claimed fellow American Donald Trump, having regularly boasted that his course currently in construction in Scotland will play host to an Open Championship one day, will be looking on with envy when the Highlands venue stages the Barclays Scottish Open for the first time this week.
The man who is now the managing partner of the acclaimed Inverness course believes becoming part of the local community, as he has done since he first earmarked the spectacular site on the banks of the Moray Firth for the layout that is staging one of the European Tour's biggest events just two years after opening, has helped endear him to the locals more than Trump has managed through overseeing his project near Aberdeen from the other side of the Atlantic.

Parsinen told The Scotsman he is convinced Trump's latest flying visit to Menie Estate a fortnight ago was timed to try and deflect some of the attention away from Castle Stuart as it prepares to stage an event boasting five out of the top nine players in the world and is "sure" even his gregarious compatriot will be a tad jealous with the global publicity the rival course is about to receive.

While not on the same scale as the protests Trump has experienced in the North-East, Parsinen revealed neighbouring property owners had also raised objections when plans for the Castle Stuart course he designed in tandem with Gil Hanse were unveiled, but is convinced that his decision to live on the course - he moved into a cottage during the construction phase and is still there - played a part in the multi-million pound project subsequently being embraced.

"I've been living in the UK on and off for 40 years. It helps to live here," said Parsinen, an entrepreneur who encouraged a number of investors, including a handful of silent partners, to cough up the cash for a course that was chosen by Barclays to become the new home of the Scottish Open after the event's successful run at Loch Lomond came to an end last July.

"Take Donald Trump, and I don't mean to be critical because people operate in different ways. He flies in, has some press conferences and gets photographed on the golf course. He is going to do a wonderful project, there is no doubt about that, but he's not living in the community, getting his hair cut, buying his groceries, going to the local restaurant and making friends.

He's running the project from 40,000 feet in his private jet.

"I'm part of the community now and I am grateful for the support we have received from the local community.

"One of the first things we did was invite over the neighbours to tell them exactly what we were doing. We owed it to them as neighbours.

"They all objected to having their lives disturbed but it was interesting at the planning meeting that they stood up and said that philosophically they objected to the project because they wanted to maintain their lifestyle but added that they knew the people doing the project and said they knew we were going to do a great job."

Asked if he felt the timing of Trump's most recent visit to Menie Estate had been significant, Parsinen, said: "Absolutely". As for the billionaire casting an envious eye towards Castle Stuart over the next few days, he added: "Oh, I am sure. He is an extremely skilled marketeer and promoter and I think he would be absolutely interested in staging an event of this nature. For us, it has huge value. We are pretty well known now in Scotland and the UK but in America no-one really knows us. This is going to help us become better known, there's no question about that."

Parsinen, who earned a BA in Strategic Studies at the University of Pennsylvania before completing a special course on the same subject at the London School of Economics, revealed the second phase for Castle Stuart is already in the pipeline and that will start with the construction of a bespoke dormy house and nine-hole pitch and putt course. Plans have also been drawn up for a second 18-hole course on the Inverness side of the existing course.

"We're not done here," added the man who first made his mark in Scotland with the construction of Kingsbarns near St Andrews. "We will never stop trying to make this a better golf course while there are other aspects to the project. A second golf course, for example. It goes around the bay to Inverness and will be a complementary golf course.

"What I mean by that is that will be a course where I could play golf with my grandson or it will be somewhere to play in the morning before playing Castle Stuart.

"We've also got a 51-bedroom dormy house on the drawing board at the moment and we are hoping to start that next spring. It is all about golf. It will be located at bottom end of range and people will be able to go straight out of it and either hit balls on the range, do some putting or play the pitch and putt course that we also have in the pipeline."

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Scottish Open at Castle Stuart
« Reply #16 on: July 05, 2011, 01:53:43 PM »
Brian

Thanks for posting that story. Let me tell you that this is a pretty big event for the Highlands and will be huge for not only Castle Stuart but for other local clubs, many of which are in dire straights. If more UK golfers get the urge to visit after seeing this weeks event, which I'm sure they will, hopefully other courses will get some spin off.

I have to confess that I was kind of teeing this one up for Mike W. I agree with his comments and don't think that it will bear much comparison to RSG and in that respect will not be much value as a warm up other than allowing the competitive juices to flow. But then neither should it as this is a great comp in its own right and the course its being played on is what a lot of pundits have been asking for in terms of its less than US Open set up or indeed Open set up.

Here's hoping it gets some positive reviews (and I say that with my previously flagged up issues with the design) because I think the team behind it deserve great credit.

Niall

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Scottish Open at Castle Stuart
« Reply #17 on: July 05, 2011, 02:04:43 PM »
Nice article in the Herald on the positive effect the event will have for golf tourism in the Highlands:

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/golf/castle-stuart-opens-gateway-to-scottish-golf-s-northern-lights-1.1110244

Adrian_Stiff

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Scottish Open at Castle Stuart
« Reply #18 on: July 05, 2011, 02:09:27 PM »
MPs idea for the 51 bed Dormy house and second course starts to make this attractive IMO as a commercial operation. As a 1 courser the masses dont travel. Put nice comply beds, great Scotch hospitality, great golf at a few different courses, CSx2 and perhaps Nairn (How far away is the Boat?)it all starts to work.
A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
The Players Club, Cumberwell Park, The Kendleshire, Oake Manor, Dainton Park, Forest Hills, Erlestoke, St Cleres.
www.theplayersgolfclub.com

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Scottish Open at Castle Stuart
« Reply #19 on: July 05, 2011, 02:31:15 PM »
Adrian -

I am sure the proximity of the Castle Stuart property to Inverness Airport (2 miles away), Nairn (12-15 miles), Boat of Garten (about 30 miles), Royal Dornoch (45-50 miles), etc. was a big reason Mark Parsinen selected this site to build a course. From the beginning, his plan has been to develop a full blown golf "resort," with 2 courses, a boutique hotel, spa and fairway lodges. The Castle Stuart website cities Tunrberry and Gleneagles as models for what Castle Stuart aspires to be.

DT

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Scottish Open at Castle Stuart
« Reply #20 on: July 05, 2011, 02:34:52 PM »
Adrian,

In this market they have been struggling to get a hotel on board and I believe were even looking at timeshare to part fund the hotel and no doubt the dormy house idea is the latest way of getting the commercial element built. I still suspect that he will have to wait until the economy turns and banks look favourably again on that type of development. Having said that,at £150 or whatever it is for overseas players, £90 quid for UK residents and £50 for locals the course should wash its face I would think provided he gets the right numbers to play it. And most of the play is in the £90 to £150 brackets I believe.

This weeks event will be invaluable as it will get weekend golfers from down south up for a game and some highland hospitality. I think they will have more impact on the local economy than the overseas golfers who may stop to play CS while travelling from Dornoch to St Andrews or vice versa but who won't base themselves locally and play some local courses. I hope that game plan works because you have some really good golf within an hours drive.

David

The P&J has been giving it big licks as well, as has the local Northern Scot. As long as it isn't a wash out weather wise it will be great publicity for them. From what I gather they haven't brought in the rough so I'm looking forward to hearing what the players and the pundits make of it.

Niall


Michael Whitaker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Scottish Open at Castle Stuart
« Reply #21 on: July 05, 2011, 02:52:59 PM »
Niall - Thanks for the tee! I wish everyone in the Highlands nothing but prosperity, but it saddens me that Castle Stuart is on its way to becoming the rate leader in that area... just as Pebble Beach is in the US. At £160 for visitors CS is shockingly overpriced IMO. The kind of hype it will receive as a result of this tournament will only serve to throw fuel on the fire and justify their pricing scheme. We've seen it happen here in the States over and over again... the upward spiral of fees continually escalating the cost of golf. I never thought I would see Scotland, the home of golf, embrace a Country-Club-For-A-Day facility the way they have CS. But, good for CS and good for the Highlands, I guess. I'm just glad I got to spend some significant time there before the Americans moved in to teach the Scots how to make golf profitable. Good luck with that.
"Solving the paradox of proportionality is the heart of golf architecture."  - Tom Doak (11/20/05)

Mark Chaplin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Scottish Open at Castle Stuart
« Reply #22 on: July 05, 2011, 07:11:49 PM »
Niall the £92 rate is for Scottish residents not UK.

I wonder if one of the reasons Luke Donald practises in the south east this last week was for some proper links golf.
Cave Nil Vino

Robert Thompson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Scottish Open at Castle Stuart
« Reply #23 on: July 05, 2011, 11:46:33 PM »


I'm reluctant to do it, but I'm going to stick my head in the noose about Castle Stuart one more time...

Castle Stuart is a beautiful course and it will look magnificent on television. It should... it was created with photography and TV in mind in order to "sell" it on the web, in magazines and on the tube.

However... Castle Stuart is NOT a links course. The only thing it has in common with RStG is that they are both hard by the sea and are subject to wide variances in the wind.

Castle Stuart will not provide a tuneup for RStG as it has much more in common Arcadia Bluffs in Michigan than it does with RStG.


Really? Parsinen and Hanse created this one for photography? I thought the goal was to be able to play it....
Terrorizing Toronto Since 1997

Read me at Canadiangolfer.com

Bryan Izatt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Scottish Open at Castle Stuart
« Reply #24 on: July 06, 2011, 01:03:39 AM »

Robert,

Of course it's meant to be played ...............


But a lot of the design and its promotion, both on the web site and when you talk to them there, is about "a visual experience unlike any other in golf".


Michael,

I couldn't agree with you more about the pricing.  Royal Dornoch twice for the same price as Castle Stuart still wins out for me.  Why trek to the highlands to pay a lot of money to play with American and Japanese tourists.  Nevertheless, if it helps the economy of the area going and helps the local courses out, that would be good.


Niall

Any idea how they are doing with number of rounds.  When I was there a couple of years ago there couldn't have been more than a couple of dozen players a day in the prime summer time.  Is it doing better these days?