Does the average golfer appreciate Old Macdonald?

[Jud_T]

Jerry,

Yes it isn't Myrtle Beach.  But reading a ranking or a write-up is different from actually playing on that turf in that wind.  And 10 years later I haven't let 'em down yet.  As a matter of fact, having gone to GB&I several times and all over the U.S., considering all the factors of cost, quality of golf, hassle of travel & jet lag, I see little reason to go anywhere other than Bandon for these types of trips.  And Kalen's got a point...

[Terry Lavin]

I am not exactly sure what the "average golfer" is, but I suspect that somebody matching that description would seldom, if ever, get to Bandon Dunes.  The more interesting question to me is what percentage of "retail golfers" (Mike Keiser's ingenious term for his demographic) choose to come back to Bandon Dunes to play again.  I've been on four trips and there were guys on each trip who basically said that Bandon was not their cup of tea.  I would estimate the percentage of naysayers to be around five percent.  There are plenty of people who don't like the idea of walking and playing in a lot of wind.  It can be brutal on the Oregon coast and the wind factor is probably as big a limiting factor as the remoteness and difficulty of travel.  That's a lot for an "average golfer" to overcome...

[Kalen Braley]

Compared to most in the treehouse, I may be an outlier on this one...But I would go back to Bandon every year if I could.  

I don't have a problem with proximity as I live in PNW.
I don't have a problem with time off, as I can easily take a 4 day weekend.
I dont' have a problem with the golf...I absolutly love it.

The big problem is the cost.  In peak season its a pricey affair, even for just a quick jaunt over for a long weekend and 4 or 5 rounds.

Sure one can go in the winter at half the price, but risk the foul weather issue of cold, rain, and wind....the combination of those making for miserable golf.

So my question is...of those of you who have buddies who say they don't want to come back.  Is it a golf course style issue, or is it a perceived bang-for-your buck issue.  Throw in the lack of nightlife and that could be an issue too.

[Kalen Braley]

Overall,

I'd be willing to bet that this question is not as much about the "average" golfer.

Its more about those who can afford it and those who can't...

[Jud_T]

I think Terry's point is a good one.  For those "Retail Golfer's" who can afford it as more than a once in a lifetime trip, how many would return to Bandon over Pinehurst, Pebble, Whistling Straights, Greenbriar, etc.?  Perhaps Streamsong and Cabot will muddy the waters as well...

[John Kavanaugh]

I think Terry's point is a good one.  For those "Retail Golfer's" who can afford it as more than a once in a lifetime trip, how many would return to Bandon over Pinehurst, Pebble, Whistling Straights, Greenbriar, etc.?  Perhaps Streamsong and Cabot will muddy the waters as well...

Or how many are going to join places like Dismal or Kingsley instead.  It is almost impossible for me to go back to Bandon with all the great options in the Sand Hills.

[Terry Lavin]

I think Terry's point is a good one.  For those "Retail Golfer's" who can afford it as more than a once in a lifetime trip, how many would return to Bandon over Pinehurst, Pebble, Whistling Straights, Greenbriar, etc.?  Perhaps Streamsong and Cabot will muddy the waters as well...

Or how many are going to join places like Dismal or Kingsley instead.  It is almost impossible for me to go back to Bandon with all the great options in the Sand Hills.

Good point.  There are only so many golf travel days one can justify and yours is an excellent "conflict" to have.

[Matthew Parish]

Having just gotten back from a second trip to Bandon (in the past 4 years), I am with Kalen in that I will continue to go back.  I would consider myself an average serious golfer, and I think that is what Bandon caters to better than anyone in the country.

This last time, we just walked off Old Mac when we saw a group of about ten (10) bags some of which had Texas Longhorn headcovers, so we knew there were some fellow Texans inside the clubhouse.  It was a fairly mild day, wind probably 15-20 mph, but they looked fairly battered.  They had never played links golf before, but to a man, they all said they had a great time.  Those average golfers you have an open mind and like the idea of playing shots with some creativity, shots you do not get to practice, will love and appreciate Bandon.  

I'll add this, playing in and around Houston, we get a lot of wind, so that aspect of Bandon (or Scotland) never put me off.  Besides, almost all of the Bandon courses are failry generous off the tee, especially Old Mac.  What took the greatest amount of time getting used to was the turf conditions.  The average golfer who is only a slightly-better-than-poor iron player will find frustration at Bandon.    

[Garland Bayley]

It would seem that proximity makes a difference. Those people that have to make quite a trip out of it probably research it a little more before going. For people from the Pacific Northwest that can just drop in, some seem to find it not to their liking. As William reported from Eugene, there are people that won't be back. I too find in the Portland area that there are people at my club that say it is too windy, and they won't go back.

When I went, I was hooked up with other locals, predominately from the Willamette Valley, and it was clear to me that some were not enjoying their experience. And that was on relatively windless days!

[Dave McCollum]

I’ve just skimmed through this topic.  At the risk of repeating what’s already been said, I was over at BD less than a month ago.  I went with one Bandonista and two links newbies, all average golfers at best (15 to 20+ cappers).  One the first tee the first day I said to the caddies that we don’t care what score we shoot, if there is a match, just tell us who’s up or down in the match, and if there is a cool links shot to play that we can’t play anywhere else, tell your player about it.   We pretty much stuck to that script throughout the rounds.  Matches were abandoned and the betting was hole by hole or shot by shot with the caddies driving the action between themselves.  Predictably, the golf was grotesque at times with some huge scores, not that we were counting, but we had a ball with lots of needling and plenty of laughs.  I’d say that these AG’s had their links epiphany and loved it.  Sure, they all wished that they had played better and left with the resolve (fantasy) to work on their games so that they could return ASAP and enjoy it even more.  Being a golf wacko that occasionally hangs out on this site, I’m not sure how much I influenced their experience with my enthusiasm for links golf.  Probably quite a bit.  Whatever, it was fun to watch the baptism and subsequent conversion.

To be fair, this trip wasn’t just the average group of retail golfers.  We played with some of the guys working on the new Preserve course, Wood Sabold, the resort photographer, a few locals, and the most gung-ho of links caddies, hand-picked by C&C’s lead associate on the Preserve, Dave Zinkand, who also played when he could.  Given this talent pool of links enthusiasts, it would be almost impossible for the AG’s to avoid being converted.  Kind of like playing with the guys on this site.

[John Kavanaugh]

I'm a bit sick of this load of crap that people score worse by playing the most appropriate shot.

[Lester George]

I might define the "average golfer" different than others but I would say they wouldn't appreciate Old Macdonald as much as many of the people on this site.  I just don't think the "average golfer" understands the nuances associated with minimilist architecture or construction. 

I remember vividly trying to get my father to watch the Open Championship at St Andrews and he just wouldn't watch it because he hated the look and did not get why anybody would want to play in those conditions.  Even after I went there and played I tried to describe to him the architectural merit, strategy and beauty of it and he basically said "whatever".  He would watch Tha Masters every year though and say, "Now thats what a golf course should look like".  He was a better than average player and played all over the world.  He was president of Kasumigaseki Country Club in Japan.  He knew the difference, he just did not appreciate the style of an Old Mac type course.  He didn't live to see Ballyhack, but I am sure if he saw it he would prefer Kinloch.

Lester

[BCrosby]

Lester -

I would guess that a lot of us have fathers like yours, with the exception that our fathers aren't the president of Kasumigaseki Country Club in Japan.

Bob

[Lester George]

Bob,

He was probably only president becuse the Japanese insisted there be an American Officer in charge of the club and he was tagged. 

Kasumigaseki was the second golf course I ever went around with my father.  Army Navy Country Club was the first.  Kasumigaseki was my first recognition of golf and the course proper.  It was there that it "dawned" on me that someone had to lay this out and someone (women) had to maintain it.  Incredible Colt-Allison course that I still have photos of from back then ('65-'68).  As it turns out, it would be 5 more years before I actually became interested in playing.  That was at my fathers encouragement at McGuire Air Force Base.  We would play together and have a lot of fun. I was 18 at the time. 

Lester