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Richard Choi

  • Karma: +0/-0
Please vote for your favorite Redan. As usual, you have till end of the week for voting.

Richard Choi

  • Karma: +0/-0
From Ian Andrew's Blog: One of my favorite long par threes is the 4th at Riviera. The hole was conceived as a redan with players facing the option of flying the ball over the massive front bunker or hitting a ??draw to use the natural contour of the ?fairway right of the bunker and green to feed the ball down onto the putting surface. Thomas created a daunting carry with the placement of the front bunker, but gave such an open and inviting ?alternative by adding fairway right of the bunker for the player to use the natural slopes to funnel the ball around the bunker. The only unfortunate thing about Riviera is the infestation of the Kikuya grass really has ruined the viability of this clever approach.







Richard Choi

  • Karma: +0/-0
Vander Borght, #10 Seed, North Shore, Hole #9, 178 yards





Alex Lagowitz

North shore gets my vote...
You should never be able to carry the ball straight to the green on a real redan and you can do that at Riviera

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
North Shore.
H.P.S.

Bill Brightly

  • Karma: +0/-0
North Shore

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
While I think Riv #4 is a fantastic hole...seems to be a fair bit lacking of Redan- like properties.

My vote goes to North shore...missing left appears to be a severe penalty here.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2011, 06:05:05 PM by Kalen Braley »

Brent Carlson

  • Karma: +0/-0
North Shore

Richard Choi

  • Karma: +0/-0
Wow, this is quite a shocker...

mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
AKA Mayday

Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
I'm seeing a lot of Eastern States guys voting for North Shore without any discussion attached and I wonder if this is a case of people who have not played a hole not seeing its virtues through photographs alone? Forgive me, gentlemen (Mayday, Bill, Pat) if that's not the case.

Alex, what you say might be so for those capable of carrying the ball 230 yards with accuracy. That doesn't describe many of us, and for those who can, I'd argue a lot of Redan greens can be hit on the fly and held. If you do take the green on here and fall short, you're in a pretty fearsome bunker.

The day I played Riv, three of us were in the group. Player 1 hit it arrow straight at the right fringe and stayed there. Player B hit a drawn four wood  that landed about 10 yards up the hill and settled about a foot off the green. Player C hit an even more pronounced draw with a three wood, landed 20 yards or more right of the green and his ball was in the right centre of the green.

The slope of the green also works in nicely with the kickpad, as it should.

Say what you will about kikuyu, but that kickpad absolutely works as it should on such a hole. There may not be a bunker right/long, but there is a drop down, which used to be, as I understand it, even more prounced before the days of clubs beaing fearful of litigation.

I haven't played North Shore, so I can't argue relative merits, but I do think the 4th at Riv gets sold short. It's a hell of a hole.

michael damico

  • Karma: +0/-0
Real tough one here...Riv has the great placement of the hole in the land with more aesthetically pleasing bunkers, but the Kikuya has killed the initial design philosophy as many have opined.

NS is a tough one with it being an extremely tough recovery shot from anywhere on the left. Never hit the green all the times I would play the hole. Believe the fairway should be extended on the right, and I'm sure Renaissance will do a wonderful job when they get to this hole.

Well, one more to push it over for the upset...NS is my pick
"without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible"
                                                                -fz

Lester George

  • Karma: +0/-0
North Shore

Lester

Mark McKeever

  • Karma: +0/-0
North Shore.

mark
Best MGA showers - Bayonne

"Dude, he's a total d***"

Kevin Pallier

  • Karma: +0/-0
I haven't played North Shore, so I can't argue relative merits, but I do think the 4th at Riv gets sold short. It's a hell of a hole.

I agree Scott - I think it's the best long Redan I've seen.

Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Michael Damico:

Quote
the Kikuya has killed the initial design philosophy as many have opined.

In what way? The only comment in this thread relating to playability makes the opposite claim.

Yes, kikuyu won't have the ball roll out like fescue or even couch/bermuda on the same piece of land, but look at the steepness of the kickpad on 4 at Riv.

How have you found the hole to play? Do your experiences differ from mine?

Jason Baran

  • Karma: +0/-0
North Shore.  I agree with one of the previous posters - it's not about what is the better hole, it's about what is the better Redan hole.  And I'm not quite sure how the Riviera hole even qualifies.

Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Jason:

Quote
I'm not quite sure how the Riviera hole even qualifies.

Having played a few Redans, including the original, the Riviera hole is one of the best.

What makes it not a Redan in your opinion?

Richard Choi

  • Karma: +0/-0
Wow, this is like Richmond beating Syracuse. 2 to 10 North Shore as Riviera is barely breathing. I didn't see this coming...

But you still have till EOW.

Richard Choi

  • Karma: +0/-0
Down goes Riviera! Down goes Riviera!

Pretty shocking...