A great surprise in Southampton

[Dave Greene]

Just a couple of thoughts. The original front right bunker on the 7th hole was closer to the green then what is in place now. The original bunker goes back to a 1938 photo. I think what is now in place is much better and there is plenty of room behind that bunker to bounce in a shot. This was not the case with the original bunker placement. Of course the present bunker does not look so inviting from the tee and it hides some turf behind it which I believe is a wonderful thing. As for some other comments about the 207 yards being too long for the Redan hole. The hole is listed on a score card from 1959 as 215 yards from the back tees. Part of the reason for the length is to have most play with a club that is not too lofted in order to promote the bump and run shot. In this day and age that does not seem like a stretch. The separation from the back and the middle tees helps put a similar club into the hands of the golfer from each tee. A high cut shot can still be played as well. The tee is now very close to its original position. We can occasionally move the back tee up for a change of pace. We are working on getting the hole names on the next edition of score cards and we had some tee signs made with hole names but they did not come out they way we intended so we will not use them. We will get some tee signs with hole names eventually. This will help the membership to better understand what the template holes are all about. Our green speed is a little less then what it usually is as the Poa Annua came out of the winter a little beat up from the prolonged snow and ice cover. Last year we had the greens consistently between 10 and 11 which is about as far as we want to take them as some of our greens have steep slopes. Over the next 3 to 5 years we will be tweaking things as our course matures so we are not done just yet.   

[Patrick_Mucci]

Pat,
What do you think about the placement of the front right bunker on the Redan hole? The Dental Sandbagger, that you were speaking of, and I had a conversation about whether it was too close to the green for such a long shot, especially a shot designed to run a bit. What say you?

Keith

Let me look at the 1938 aerial, which I won't be able to get to until after July 5th, then, I'll give you my thoughts.

That's a pretty large green, probably 60 yards in depth so, it's 180 to the front from the back tee.
the bunker appeared to be 5 to  10 yards short of the green, bringing the carry back to 170 to 175 yards

One of my main concerns about that hole is that the area behind the green is being allowed to transition to wetlands
I'd prefer to see a bunker directly behind the green
The area seems slighly depressed and i wonder what was there in 1938.  It appears to be a good spot for a bunker


Dave,

I noticed an abundance of poa in the greens and attributed it to a late/wet spring
With faster speeds, those greens will come alive as they have great contours and slopes

In addition, in a season or two, the impact of the expansions will come into play making the course exponentially better

[Keith OHalloran]

Dave,
Thanks for the input. Can you speak to the punchbowl on the 9 green? Is that original? Is it a Brian Silva creation? when do you think the green will play as one uniform surface?

[Dave Greene]

Keith,
The original 9th green was open in front with a 3 sided tall (6 to 8 feet) berm (the two sides and the back). There was a small sliver of a bunker along the back. There were no green side bunkers but there was a cross bunker about 60 yards out in front of the green which we put back in place. I say we because Brian Silva always let us be very involved. Make no mistake about it it is Brian's work. He was great to work with and it was a lot of fun. Our 9th was very similar to the 15th hole at Westhampton C.C. I was hoping we could put it back the way it was. When Brian Silva started our project he came up with the idea of the punch bowl green around 9 and I must say it worked out real well and I am very happy with the results. It is much fun and will get better as it grows in which will take a full year to really mature.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Dave,

The 15th green at Westhampton has a spine running from 9 o'clock to 3 o'clock.

Was there any thought to replicating that feature in light of the rather large size of the 9th green ?

Can you create a bunker behind # 7 before that area gets away from you ?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Dave,

How many of the "backstop" features on the greens existed prior to the project.

They're terrific features and safety nets.

[Dave Greene]

Pat,

Holes 9 and 16 had backstop features and now we have added holes #6, 9 and 14 to that mix. Our 9th green does have a small spine through the middle of the green but it is modest. We have some greens with a lot of slope but we also have many with subtle slopes that can catch you off guard at times. The area behind the 7th green has always been as it is now. Maybe some day we can work on that area.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Dave,

I loved the look of the fairway bunkers, very intimidating and disorienting.
And if you were unlucky enough to be in them, they extracted their price.

How many of them remained when you began the project and how many did you insert ?

[Dave Greene]

Pat,

We had about 72 bunkers before the project and we added about 2 dozen more. There were about 20 +/- bunkers that we did not change or did not change much except to add drainage and replace sand. The shadows we get late in the day from the bunkers is pretty neat to look at.

[Steve Lang]

   Pat's 1938 aerial for reference



current google earth view

[jeffwarne]

So I was out at Southampton the last 2 days  with my son who played in a interclub match today.
(he made his first visit to Southampton yesterday)

the course is in wonderful shape with firmness throughout the greens and fairways, and the bunkers are quite attractive visually (and quite intimidating)
The only criticism is the fescue is a bit infested with nasty weeds from grow in, but no doubt that will be taken care of with a preemerge next spring.
Hopefully, the powers that be won't become infatuated with speed as there are some wonderful pin positions available on both the new and old portions of the greens.
The geens seem to be at a great speed and the overall condition of the fairways is very impressive (firm and fast)

 -I played perhaps my worst 9 holes of the year and absolutely enjoyed it-and particularly enjoyed watching a shorter hitter (11year old son)navigate and tack his way around the course avoiding the bunkers.