[Neil_Crafter]

In typical MacKenzie fashion, the bunkers are hidden when one looks back toward the tee.

Kyle

Those more versed than me know a deeper history on the club but the vast majority of the bunkers aren't Mackenzie's work.

A much maligned opener - there's much better holes to come.

Kevin - there are no bunkers that are Mackenzie's work. He laid the course out and his bunkering scheme was never implemented. Eventually Eric Apperley bunkered the course and altered a large number of the holes.

[Kyle Henderson]

Kyle, how many people hit a mid to short iron 170-180m?!

Also, I think your last pic is the 9th green, not the 2nd (a mistake Brian Phillips also made in his pic tour of the front nine ).

I believe I hit a 5-iron in calm conditions. Pup must have played a 9.  

I recall the hole is roughly a 1/2 club downhill (when wind-free), correct?

You are correct about the last photo (of the 9th green). I mislabeled it when I was sorting images back in March. Thanks for catching that.

[Kyle Henderson]

In typical MacKenzie fashion, the bunkers are hidden when one looks back toward the tee.

Kyle

Those more versed than me know a deeper history on the club but the vast majority of the bunkers aren't Mackenzie's work.

A much maligned opener - there's much better holes to come.

Kevin - there are no bunkers that are Mackenzie's work. He laid the course out and his bunkering scheme was never implemented. Eventually Eric Apperley bunkered the course and altered a large number of the holes.

I deliberately worded my statement "typical MacKenzie fashion." Whether or not he implemented the hazards, those bunkers at the first do fit his tendencies in the manner I described, do they not?

[Scott Warren]

Pup must have played a 9.

I think he showed you the sole of the club upside-down!

[Kyle Henderson]

Pup must have played a 9.

I think he showed you the sole of the club upside-down!

I think the had the markers moved forward a bit for us as well.

The online course guide suggests a driver is sometimes needed in a strong wind, but I can't imagine that really ever being the case for anyone below a 20-handicap, especially with the front of the green releasing towards the back.

[Scott Warren]

What Kyle's pics don't show is that - inexplicably - the area in front of the green is maintained as rough, eliminating the option of a run-up shot, or a chip and run second if you land short.

It makes no sense at all and further condemns an already weak hole.

Worst hole on the Golf Mag World Top 50?

[Ben Jarvis]

A very ordinary hole on what is otherwise a spectacularly brilliant golf course!

[Michael Taylor]

The 2nd hole at NSW is a bloody tough par 3 that is rated the 4th hardest hole on the course. It is 184m from the back tee, and I have played it with anything from a 7i, to a Driver from the back tee. It is certainly the weakest hole on the course, because the green is nowhere near receptive enough for a hole of its length. The green is designed to hold a 6 or 7 iron, not a 3 iron that is regularly my club of choice on this hole.

I find this hole to be a case of "take 1/2 a club less than you think you should hit, and try not to go left." Right is certainly the better miss, as you then have a chip along the length of the green, and the rough is definately more benign over there. A miss short or left leaves you a tough pitch with not much green to work with, and you'll frequently see people taking 3 or 4 shots to get it on the green from down there as a shot left a little bit short will roll back to your feet. Short left of the green used to be the best miss, because it was fairway down there untill the Australian Open in 2009, when they converted it to rough, and they've decided to just leave it that way unfortunately.

When we re-do the greens in August this year, the green will be changed slightly. The back to front slope on the green will be reduced slightly, and the 'gouge' on that front left section of green will be lifted slightly to promote balls staying on the green.

From 140m out.



Looking along the length of the green.



From over the back of the green. An impossible shot.



Back to the 2nd tee with the 1st hole on the left.



View of the 2nd green, 3rd hole, 9th hole, 10th hole, 118th hole and driving range.



The next hole provides a good wtf moment. 

Pup

[Anthony Butler]

Michael,

still in Scotland, leave on July 1, then go to Italy etc and get back to Oz July 21.

Thank you for the bottle that awaited my arrival at Dornoch, you're very naughty but ever so nice

Terry,

Is anyone else scratching their head at the idea of a company without an office in Australia being the consulting architect at NSWGC?

arb:

[Mike_Clayton]

Anthony,

No.

Tom Doak and Martin Hawtree don't have offices in Australia either. Come to think of it, neither did Alister MacKenzie.
There is however a different question to ask - which is the one I assume you are alluding to.

[Matt_Cohn]

Michael's pics:

From 140m out.



Looking along the length of the green.



From over the back of the green. An impossible shot.



Back to the tee with the 1st hole on the left.



Picture with the 2nd green, 3rd tee shot, 9th hole, 10th hole, 18th hole and driving range in shot.

[Kyle Henderson]

It’s not often that a course guide suggests a line directly at the bushes dead left from the tees… Welcome to the 3rd hole at NSWGC.


Fortunately, Sir Taylor was with me to insist that I aim over the mass of foliage, as the rectangular tees are apparently lined up in a manner meant to fool first-time visitors into playing far too far to the right.


The sharp dogleg is fully visible after an uncomfortably long walk to the precipice. Cross your fingers and hope to see your ball somewhere safe.


The approach shot is testing, uphill and often into a stronger wind than can be felt from the fairway. Keep your head down and make a clean strike, following Pup’s example.


The green’s front corners are protected by deep traps that require recovery shots which emerge softly to hold the firm, exposed putting surface.


Whatever your score may be, the view is worth the effort.

[Kevin Pallier]

Fortunately, Sir Taylor was with me to insist that I aim over the mass of foliage, as the rectangular tees are apparently lined up in a manner meant to fool first-time visitors into playing far too far to the right.

Kyle

Whoever decided to give priority to clearing out the foliage on the right over that on the left still dumbfounds me to this day.

It is one of the most awkward tee shots I've seen - one is best to hit a hybrid or long iron over the trees jutting out from the bushes. If one takes driver and hits it straight they can go through the fairway and if they go right potentially hiit someone putting on the 8th green.

[Scott Warren]

KP,

It's 240m to reach the 8th green from the white tee at the 3rd, and it's all carry to get there because of the dune covered in native vegetation behind the 8th green.

Could the decision to leave the thick vegetation on the left be due to the fact the 3rd tee at St Michaels is only 80m away on a direct line with the green?

[Kevin Pallier]

Scott

I've seen some balls end up just to the right of the 8th green and from Google earth it's about 200m from the forward tees. With the amount of strong NE's I've seen at NSW GC - it's not beyond the realms for one to potentially be in danger playing the 8th.



As far as your second question - I dont think so - as you can see from the thread pics. the angle seems OK and vegetation is pretty thick in there.

[Wayne Freeman]

Visually, this hole is stunning but just too tough a tee shot.  My buddy and I didn't have a caddy or any help, but we played
  that hole 3 times and still couldn't figure out what to hit.  It seemed as if anything a little right ended up way right in the rough
  or was lost, and that anything a little left was lost in the bushes. 

[Mark Chaplin]

I do not like the tee shot but the second shot is one of the finest I've played in Australia, the bunkers frame the skyline green perfectly and I could play the second shot all day long. I'm gutted the club plan to fill in the left hand bunker and make the hole look extremely ordinary.

[Michael Taylor]

Chappers,

I reckon the approach shot WILL look less attractive with the revised design of the hole, but I also believe it will be a better hole from a strategic standpoint as the hole will now reward a shot from the inside of dogleg.

Scott/Kevin

The decision to leave the bushes on the LHS there is not one for the club unfortunately. The National Parks and Wildlife Authority or some crap will not let us burn any of the ESBS (Eastern Suburbs Banksia Scrub), which is why we are unable to burn any areas that we want to like the 15th, or the LHS of the green on 4. When the new green is put in on the 4th, the ESBS will only be 3-4 metres from the left hand side of the green, punishing even good shots!


The "safe" play here is to hit it over the left edge of the tee in front of you, and that leaves you about 140m into the skyline green. If you take it over the Buzzer towards to bottom left of the pic, you need to carry the ball a minimum of 220m to reach the fairway. However you'll be rewarded with a level stance and you'll have just 90m left into the gree from near the bunker set into the hill in Kyle's 2nd photo. I have driven this green before from the back tee, and the line to the green is even further left than what is shown in this pic. It is 290m to the front of the green.



As you walk up to the hill, this is the first view you get of the ocean. 



A good view of the sweeping nature of the fairway from 90 degrees to the right. This is from the Ladies top tee. It's a fantastic driveable 240m par 4 from up there!





From 120m out.



View of the green and up the coast.



Pup

[Kevin Pallier]

Pup

Who said anything about burning? I see a lot of ti-tree in there that a quick Clayton chainsaw could fix 

[Kyle Henderson]

The 4th hole is the first “straight forward” offering at NSWGC, allowing players to swing freely with a driver toward a fully visible target.


A descending slope that propels drives favorably forward is traversed by the group ahead.


This natural looking hazard on the right side is one of several found throughout the course. I love the look, but I recall Pup stating his misgivings about their playing qualities.


Longer approaches are played blindly up and over a gentle rise toward the marker pole behind the 4th green’s center.


Mercifully, the front of the current green is wide open so as not to unfairly penalize players with hidden hazards. According to Pup, this green site will be moved further left near the peripheral shrubbery.


A strong pull may force your approach through the green into the left-side pot bunker.


Here is the view looking back from the 5th tee, with (from left-to-right) the 12th, 8th and 4th fairways stretching into the distance.

[Anthony Butler]

Anthony,

No.

Tom Doak and Martin Hawtree don't have offices in Australia either. Come to think of it, neither did Alister MacKenzie.
There is however a different question to ask - which is the one I assume you are alluding to.

Mike, you answered the proximity question... The other one is perhaps answered by the fact that one of them is a member and one isn't.

[Bill Brightly]

Glad to see Michael Taylor commenting about his home course! When Kyle describes a hole where you can "freely swing the driver," this what it looks like when Mike has a rip:

[Bill Brightly]

Michael and Kyle,

Is the the first hole?

[Scott Warren]

That's 18, Bill.

[Mark Chaplin]

A Norman redesign if my memory serves me right.

Am I alone in thinking the 4th is a pretty ordinary transition hole to get one to the main course of 5 & 6??

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