[Anthony Gray]

  The Postage Stamp..17 Sawgrass..7 PB these are some of the most exciting holes in tournament golf. And great fun for the average golfer.

  Anthony

[Tim Bert]

  The Postage Stamp..17 Sawgrass..7 PB these are some of the most exciting holes in tournament golf. And great fun for the average golfer.

  Anthony

Because those holes are short enough. No one would want to play PB 7 as a 65 yd half wedge. 

[Ronald Montesano]

Tim, when the wind blows out, it is a 65 yard par three.

Antoine, you could add #13 at Merion...I'd play it for the rest of my life with driver if I had to. What a great hole! Actually, I'd like to play it just once.

[Tim Bert]

Exactly. If were REALLY 65 yards it would play as a 40 yd hole.

I was just kidding around. Anthony wasn't asking why the short ones weren't shorter in the first place. 

[Jamie Van Gisbergen]

Because owners want a "target" yardage. Its difficult to get a big yardage with a really short par 3 in the mix. I mean, Sawgrass gets away with it because 8 is 237 yards. But so many owners want to be able to top the course out at 7200 yards or something and that yardage is not really conducive to short holes unless you are willing to have something really long to offset it. Plus, there seems to be something against really short par 3's, they're viewed at "quirky" or "gimmicky" rather than as good holes in many cases.

[Matthew Rose]

On the card, they aren't "glamourous". Short holes in general, are not, unless you count driveable par-fours which are almost becoming cliche.

I think too many people still think length = hard with all other things secondary.

[Jamie Van Gisbergen]

On the card, they aren't "glamourous". Short holes in general, are not, unless you count driveable par-fours which are almost becoming cliche.

I think too many people still think length = hard with all other things secondary.

Catch is short holes can be made to be even more difficult. Look at #8 at Pine Valley, or even 7 at Pebble. 7 at Pebble is a terror to play, its not easy for anyone to sit up there and hit a SW from an elevated tee to a green with literally nowhere to miss in a 20kt cross wind. And 8 at PV has two greens, neither of which is much larger than a Cadillac Fleetwood. Plus, 8 at PV has probably a 3-4 ft back to front tilt, with other internal contours. Heck, 14 at Pebble is the same way, its slightly short for a par 5 these days, even though its the longest on the course and plays into the wind. But with that green and the surrounds, its quite frightening, even with a lob wedge.

Short holes can be incredibly hard if the designer and owner (mostly owner I suspect, I figure Tom Doak would love to have the opportunity to build a couple of holes with greens like those at 8 or 17 at PV; or 14 at Pebble, though I could be wrong)) have enough guts to make them that way; hell, who needs options, I got options for you, hit a precise shot or just start running up the scores like a cash register at The Stratosphere. But long holes tend to be difficult solely because of yardage and that only penalizes poor players.

[Matt Day]

For me the expectation of good things walking onto the tee and the disappointment of failing is so much greater on a good short par 3, and that's the challenge.

I regularly play a par 3 that at most plays 125 metres, it is my true nemesis and the expectation with 9 iron in hand rarely matches the outcome walking off the green.

[Michael Goldstein]

For me all the very best golf courses make you quiver with a wedge in your hand. 8 PV, 15 CPC, 14 NSW, 3 RMW etc.. Short 3's are the best way of ensuring every play can experience that feeling.

[Jeff_Brauer]

There is some truth in the fact that a half wedge hole can be scarier than a longer par 3 hole.  At Fortune Bay, we discussed making the tee placements for the back tee (155 downhill to a platform green) up on the shorter tees (130, 110, etc.) from time to time just to make club selection and swing strength less automatic.

The downsides are that with greater length by good players, there are already too many wedge approaches to greens these days, so if par 3's are a great chance to introduce variety and concept shots, just being a short hole is less attracive than it used to be.  Even less so with Dave Pelz, gap wedges, etc. that make the half wedge more of a mechanical, standardized shot than a feel shot than it used to be.

However, on a par 3, at least you can control the approach length for all players, whereas even on a short 4 or longer 5, some average players will be approaching a green designed for a sub 100 yard approach from 180! There are also some practical problems - ball marks on a hole where every shot will be a high, high spin shot - so its hard to make it a smallish green suitable for that shot.

[Mark Chaplin]

During my visit last month the Postage Stamp was a solid 5 iron.

[Pete Lavallee]

Short holes can be incredibly hard if the designer and owner (mostly owner I suspect, I figure Tom Doak would love to have the opportunity to build a couple of holes with greens like those at 8 or 17 at PV; or 14 at Pebble, though I could be wrong)) have enough guts to make them that way; hell, who needs options, I got options for you, hit a precise shot or just start running up the scores like a cash register at The Stratosphere. But long holes tend to be difficult solely because of yardage and that only penalizes poor players.

Tom Doak has just the kind of hole we are talking about on a lot of his courses. Pacific Dunes has #14, Ballyneal has #3, Barnbougle Dunes has #7; all are less than 150 yards. Coore and Crenshaw love the really short par 3 also, #11 at Cuscowilla and #9 at Suaro are great examples. They seem to have enough influence on the owner to incorporate them even though it reduces the "championship length" of the course.

[Carl Rogers]

No. 11 at Riverfront is a 120ish yard slightly exposed & slightly downhill.  For me (mid single digit handicapper - middle age guy) is the relative ease of the hole with no wind and how quickly the hole gets a lot harder with wind regardless of wind direction. 

[Jamie Van Gisbergen]

Pete, Carl, you are of course correct about the short holes at Pacific and Riverfront, they fit what we are talking about here; 14 at Pacific plays even shorter since its downwind. But neither of those are the kind of hole I was talking about in my last post. They both have rather large greens; 8 at PV and 14 at Pebble certainly do not. I was talking about holes with VERY small targets for the approach shot. Pacific and Riverfront do not have those, at least in my opinion. 

[Pete Lavallee]

OK, you want a hole less than 120 yards and a tiny green, #8 at Rustic Canyon fits the bill there. It's hard to believe that they built a green that small on a public course, where you will get lots of ball marks with everyone hitting wedge in.

[Tom Yost]

Because owners want a "target" yardage. Its difficult to get a big yardage with a really short par 3 in the mix.

I fear this is the reason in many cases.  Nothing worse than a course of moderate yardage that pushes all of the par 3s out to 190+ yards just to grow that overall number.

[Anthony Gray]

  No one has hit on the "Fun" factor.These holes are just plain fun for the golfer.They also give the player the best oppertunity for the Holy Grail of golf ....................... the hole in one.

  Anthony

[Kin Britton]

I agree with most of the previous posts, it's all about the macho idea of a 235 yd par 3 and attaining the 7200-7500 yard distance...when 95% of the players could not possibly play this yardage (and we wonder why participation is stagnant). 

When I think of great par threes, I don't think about the yardage.  For example, I still remember all four par three's at Brora.  They played to four points of the compass were 110-190 yards each with  a style of green and bunkering to fit the yardage.  My belief is they are the best collection of par threes of all the courses we have played in Scotland.

[Tom_Doak]

In my experience, it's only partly about the total yardage.  For some reason, many clients have a problem with a hole under 150 yards.  They think it won't be taken seriously.  They are the only holes I've ever built where the CLIENT suddenly started asking if we had enough tee space and we shouldn't put in another tee just a bit longer to make sure we were okay.   

I love Bill Coore for insisting on a hole less than 150 yards on pretty much every one of his courses.  I've only batted about 50% on that in my career, but we've built a few really good ones among them.

[Jamie Van Gisbergen]

In my experience, it's only partly about the total yardage.  For some reason, many clients have a problem with a hole under 150 yards.  They think it won't be taken seriously.  They are the only holes I've ever built where the CLIENT suddenly started asking if we had enough tee space and we shouldn't put in another tee just a bit longer to make sure we were okay.   

I love Bill Coore for insisting on a hole less than 150 yards on pretty much every one of his courses.  I've only batted about 50% on that in my career, but we've built a few really good ones among them.

Tom that is very interesting. Why do they feel that way, do you think? Why wouldn't a short hole be taken seriously when holes like 7 at Pebble, 10 at Pine Valley, or 17 at TPC Sawgrass, are viewed as some of the best par 3's in the world?

[Tom_Doak]

In my experience, it's only partly about the total yardage.  For some reason, many clients have a problem with a hole under 150 yards.  They think it won't be taken seriously.  They are the only holes I've ever built where the CLIENT suddenly started asking if we had enough tee space and we shouldn't put in another tee just a bit longer to make sure we were okay.   

I love Bill Coore for insisting on a hole less than 150 yards on pretty much every one of his courses.  I've only batted about 50% on that in my career, but we've built a few really good ones among them.

Tom that is very interesting. Why do they feel that way, do you think? Why wouldn't a short hole be taken seriously when holes like 7 at Pebble, 10 at Pine Valley, or 17 at TPC Sawgrass, are viewed as some of the best par 3's in the world?

Jamie,

I wish I knew, but I've never figured it out.  They almost seem embarrassed at the idea of having a hole that short.  Though, we usually can't tell them that the hole in question is really going to be another 7th at Pebble Beach.

[William_G]

Love #5 at Trails!

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()