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Jay Flemma

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What do you think are Rees Jones's...
« on: June 20, 2011, 09:07:29 AM »
best original designs?  Both public and private?  (Sorry to channel my inner Mucci there:)

I haven't played any of his original private designs, but I hear good things about Kinderhook and some of the pix look interesting.  Lots of people that go to Atlantic say they like it.  What are his three best private designs?

I've played a lot more of his public courses - around ten - and don't really have a standout favorite or cast-iron nomination for a "best."  I felt they were so similar to each other, just in a different location, that its tough to chose.  If I have to choose, I'd say had the most fun at Pinehurst.  What are your favorite Rees publics?  How is Key West?
Mackenzie, MacRayBanks, Maxwell, Doak, Dye, Strantz. @JayGolfUSA, GNN Radio Host of Jay's Plays www.cybergolf.com/writerscorner

Matthew Petersen

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Re: What do you think are Rees Jones's...
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2011, 01:58:52 PM »
I've only played Quintero (private) and Legend Trail (public).

I get the impression that Legend Trail features his name more than his work. It's a perfectly fine course.

Quintero has great views and mostly very boring golf.

Bruce Wellmon

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Re: What do you think are Rees Jones's...
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2011, 02:06:15 PM »
Briar's Creek on Johns Island near Charleston is pretty darn good.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2011, 02:29:38 PM by Bruce Wellmon »

Tom_Doak

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Re: What do you think are Rees Jones's...
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2011, 02:23:01 PM »
There are so many I haven't seen, that I'm not sure my opinion is worth much.  But, I'd be surprised if Nantucket GC was not still among his top private courses.

PCCraig

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Re: What do you think are Rees Jones's...
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2011, 04:24:54 PM »
Nantucket, Atlantic, and Briar's Creek. BC is a very good low-key, low-country golf course that no one talks about because 1) it's right next to Kiawah, 2) hard to find if you're not looking for it, and 3) there is no unaccompanied play allowed and few members.
H.P.S.

Dan_Callahan

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Re: What do you think are Rees Jones's...
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2011, 04:26:42 PM »
I'm playing Baker Hill in New Hampshire later this week. He built it around the same time as Nantucket, Olde Kinderhook, and Blackstone National. So I'm hoping for good things ...

Kalen Braley

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Re: What do you think are Rees Jones's...
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2011, 04:54:16 PM »
This is too easy.

His best is clearly Sandpines.

Tommy N.

Jay Flemma

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Re: What do you think are Rees Jones's...
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2011, 04:58:42 PM »
Thanks so far, guys.    Nobody knows anything about Key West or Olde Kinderhook?
Mackenzie, MacRayBanks, Maxwell, Doak, Dye, Strantz. @JayGolfUSA, GNN Radio Host of Jay's Plays www.cybergolf.com/writerscorner

JR Potts

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Re: What do you think are Rees Jones's...
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2011, 05:04:34 PM »
I've heard really good things about Lakes of Isles in CT but I've never played it.

George Pazin

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Re: What do you think are Rees Jones's...
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2011, 05:10:45 PM »
There was a lot of discussion of Old Kinderhook, maybe 6-7 years ago. Search under Mike Cirba or Matt Ward's name, both were/are fans.

Miracle on Breeze Hill os a terrific book on the founding and building of Atlantic Golf Club. Recent reports are that it gets better all the time.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Jim Hoak

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Re: What do you think are Rees Jones's...
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2011, 09:13:08 PM »
It's not an original, but he did a very nice job on the redo of the Raynor course, MPCC Dunes.  He made it better without taking away the quality of the original.  Many people think it's even better that the Shore, which holds one round of the ATT in February because it is sand-capped and the Dunes is not.

Jason Baran

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Re: What do you think are Rees Jones's...
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2011, 09:43:22 PM »
I really enjoyed Ocean Forest near Sea Island.  a pretty neat routing that weaves through the lowcountry quite nicely.  some holes right on the water and some holes completely concealed.

Bob_Huntley

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Re: What do you think are Rees Jones's...
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2011, 10:06:10 PM »
Nantucket.

I have written long and often about his work on the Dunes Course at MPCC, it was very good indeed.

Bob

Sam Morrow

Re: What do you think are Rees Jones's...
« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2011, 11:28:13 PM »
On the private side I really like Shadow Hawk. I have a very good friend that raves about Piedmont Driving Club.

Dan_Callahan

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Re: What do you think are Rees Jones's...
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2011, 12:54:48 PM »
I just got back from playing Baker Hill in New Hampshire, a course Rees designed about 10 years ago.

Founded by a group that was tired of the crowds at Lake Sunapee CC, Baker Hill is a golf-only course in the truest sense. The pro shop is a barn off the first tee, and the members only recently built a clubhouse with small bar and restaurant. Everything at the place is understated in the best possible way.

The course itself was fantastic. Of the Rees Jones courses I've either seen or played, this was my favorite by far. It rained the entire time we played, so I didn't get any pictures, but this is a layout the runs through the NH hills without a single house in sight. The holes are plenty wide, so that you never felt like there wasn't a chance in hell of getting a driver in play. The greens were outstanding, rolled great, and had all sorts of little breaks that were hard to read. A number of very deep greenside bunkers were intimidating, but more often than not there were shaved areas right or left that you could bail out to, especially on the par 3s. There was only one pond on the course, and it came into play on two holes (15 and 16, maybe?).

In terms of aesthetics, many of the holes were lined with knee-high fescue, that gave it a very neat look. There were also stone walls on many holes that were uncovered as trees were cut back (the property was once farmland).

All in all, Baker Hill is one of those courses I could play everyday and never get bored. Only 220 members, no tee times, no pool or tennis courts or condos or other country club distractions. I loved it.

Jim Franklin

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Re: What do you think are Rees Jones's...
« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2011, 12:58:33 PM »
Ocean Forest is good, Briar's Creek is good as well. It certainly was hard to find. Cascata in Vegas is okay.
Mr Hurricane

Geoffrey_Walsh

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Re: What do you think are Rees Jones's...
« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2011, 12:38:38 AM »
Huntsville just outside of Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania.


Nantucket could be better if they added more width to account for the windy conditions there.  Atlantic continues to evolve but I enjoyed Huntsville more.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2011, 12:40:43 AM by Geoffrey_Walsh »

Ronald Montesano

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Re: What do you think are Rees Jones's...
« Reply #17 on: June 25, 2011, 06:33:12 AM »
He has a course in Niagara Falls, Ontario, called Grand Niagara. Part of a slated two-course resort (whose second, Greg Norman, design never materialized), it has elements of Muskoka and farmland. I played it six years ago, when it opened, and was impressed. That was before I became steeped in the components of gca at this tavern. It features the liberal use of water and sand that he is known for, along with the wide, roaming fairways and a few nearly-impossible carries. I think it might be the good subject of a cross-border piece called "Rees and Bobby: Grand Niagara and Hickory Stick."

The other original design of his that I know is Lake of Isles. A much more diverse and challenging property, LOI winds through more wetlands than most architects would care to challenge. This may be a fundamental principle of why we disparage some architects and trumpet others: when a chap takes on a daunting piece of property, knowing that forced carries and environmentally-untouchable trees will be a part of it, there simply ain't no way to develop the ground game nor other minimalist elements. Maybe that's the point...perhaps those golf courses shouldn't have been built...sort of like disrupting Yoda's repose to create Dagoba Universal Golf & Jedi Club.

I liked both courses a good bit, but I'd have to revisit them to get a true sense of their worth. Both were played a priori, but I'd certainly suggest that anyone with the time and money stop by both.
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
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~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Michael Whitaker

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Re: What do you think are Rees Jones's...
« Reply #18 on: June 25, 2011, 01:07:52 PM »
Jay,

There are a few of Rees Jones' private courses of note in SC:

Daniel Island Club (Ralston Creek Course), Daniel Island, SC:  Home of the Nationwide Tour Championship. One of Rees' most recent designs and the most recent in SC. Golfweek had Ralston Creek listed as one of its "Best New Private" courses in 2006.

Haig Point Club, Daufuskie Island, SC:  If I'm not mistaken, this was Rees' first solo design. It was built in 1987 and he did a major redo of the course in 2007... mostly removing the containment mounds he included in the original.

The Golf Club at Briar's Creek, Johns Island, SC:  This is a very private club. Very few members and no unaccompanied outside play. The course was voted #10 of the "Top 45 Courses Built Since 1959" by Golf Magazine in April 2004. And, I think it was Golf Digest's "Best New Private" in 2002.

Greenville Country Club - Chanticleer Course:  Everything you read will say this is a RTJ, Sr course... but, take my word for it... it is now a Rees Jones course! Rees remodeled the course in 2001 and very much put his personal stamp on it.

The Low Country courses all have a similar look and feel. You could almost pick any hole up from one course and drop on another without it feeling out of place. Due to its Piedmont area terrain Chanticleer is very different with lots of vertical ground movement. But, since the 2006 redo, the bunkering has the same look as the other three... catcher's mitts that slope up all the way around the perimeter.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2011, 02:18:33 PM by Michael Whitaker »
"Solving the paradox of proportionality is the heart of golf architecture."  - Tom Doak (11/20/05)

Dan_Callahan

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Re: What do you think are Rees Jones's...
« Reply #19 on: June 25, 2011, 02:10:32 PM »

The the Low Country courses all have a similar look and feel. You could almost pick any hole up from one course and drop on another without it feeling out of place.


I would say the same thing about Baker Hill and Blackstone National, except that Baker Hill is much, much better. Similar concepts and styles, just significantly better execution.

Tim Gavrich

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Re: What do you think are Rees Jones's...
« Reply #20 on: June 25, 2011, 02:41:51 PM »
What about Red Stick in Vero Beach, FL?  I've never played it but have heard it's pretty nice; similar model to Briar's Creek.
Senior Writer, GolfPass

Jay Flemma

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Re: What do you think are Rees Jones's...
« Reply #21 on: June 26, 2011, 01:48:05 PM »
Whit, have you got any pix of Daniel Island?
Mackenzie, MacRayBanks, Maxwell, Doak, Dye, Strantz. @JayGolfUSA, GNN Radio Host of Jay's Plays www.cybergolf.com/writerscorner

Michael Whitaker

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Re: What do you think are Rees Jones's...
« Reply #22 on: June 26, 2011, 05:02:31 PM »
Whit, have you got any pix of Daniel Island?

I don't, Jay. But here is a link to a photo gallery on the club's website:

http://www.danielislandclub.com/club/scripts/library/view_document.asp?GRP=10370&NS=PG&APP=80&DN=RCHOLE_1

"Solving the paradox of proportionality is the heart of golf architecture."  - Tom Doak (11/20/05)

Bob Jenkins

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Re: What do you think are Rees Jones's...
« Reply #23 on: June 27, 2011, 04:05:19 PM »

I had a chance to play Andalucia in La Quinta a few years ago. Very private. Generally well done, good variety of holes, but truly desert golf with lots of water, high end housing, beautiful gardens, immaculate (due in part to very little play) etc. but I think he was only catering to what people want down there. I have not seen much of his work but suspect he was pleased with what he came up with at Andalucia.

David Kelly

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Re: What do you think are Rees Jones's...
« Reply #24 on: June 27, 2011, 04:48:53 PM »
Bob,

I wasn't thrilled with Andalusia as I thought the containment mounding was over the top.  I did enjoy Olde Kinderhook.
"Whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent." - Judge Holden, Blood Meridian.

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