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Johnny_Browne

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Will Rory help to speed up play?
« on: June 20, 2011, 06:59:06 AM »
Hi to Everyone and best wishes from Northern Ireland,
It is a very special place to be living this monday morning.  First off I must declare a little conflict of interest in that I know Rory's father very well having played many matches against him over the years, my son in law Paul is Manager/Pro at Holywood and Rory gave Paul and myself tickets to go to the Masters this year.  However I feel that this is a very important time for golf as a game, especially as it seems to be struggling in so many areas.
I just find it incredibly refreshing to see how quickly Rory plays the game.  He has one look at the yardage book and picks his club and interestingly his new putting method where he studies (quite quickly) the putt and then just steps up and putts without a practice stroke seems to have really transformed his putting. 
Everyone now will be trying to emulate Rory's swing. My question is will young players now take note and start emulating his pace of play as well.  Or indeed will players of all ages take note. 
I am going to caddy for my son tonight who is interestingly playing a Club Match at Holywood  (it is not against Holywood but just a neutral venue) and I expect to find a few bodies lying around in the bushes!
You must all come to Northern Ireland to try to find out why we produce such outstanding golfers.
Kind regards,
Johnny Browne

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Will Rory help to speed up play?
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2011, 07:02:21 AM »
Johnny - Great story!

I'm sure hope that his speed of play will be a role model worldwide.

Pete Lavallee

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Re: Will Rory help to speed up play?
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2011, 07:10:31 AM »
My English wife noted as we watched yesterday how quickly Rory plays, hopefully that will rub off on at least a few golfers. I'm afraid that our colledge system is very much to blame. Had Rory attended University here in the US, his coach surely would have had him slow down his game and encouraged him to be less risk taking; is it any wonder that we have a bunch of robot like plodders out on Tour now. Give our Yank Dave Stockton credit fro Rory's putting routine; he is firmly against taking practice strokes, seems the way to go.
"...one inoculated with the virus must swing a golf-club or perish."  Robert Hunter

Tim Martin

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Re: Will Rory help to speed up play?
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2011, 07:29:30 AM »
My English wife noted as we watched yesterday how quickly Rory plays, hopefully that will rub off on at least a few golfers. I'm afraid that our colledge system is very much to blame. Had Rory attended University here in the US, his coach surely would have had him slow down his game and encouraged him to be less risk taking; is it any wonder that we have a bunch of robot like plodders out on Tour now. Give our Yank Dave Stockton credit fro Rory's putting routine; he is firmly against taking practice strokes, seems the way to go.

It starts in junior golf and by the time players get to the college level they are so slow as to be unwatchable. This "don`t get out of your routine" mantra is only good if players can move at a reasonable pace to begin with. Rory could go a long way in changing the current culture.

Jeff_Brauer

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Re: Will Rory help to speed up play?
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2011, 07:58:19 AM »
Tim,

I heard Johnny Miller say that yesterday on TV - that the problem starts early and THEN filters to the PGA Tour.  I would have thought it was the other way around, with the ultra slow players on the PGA Tour leading the way to slow play and affecting those who follow and emulate them.

As to Stockton's effect, I have been fortunate to get a few putting lessons from him while playing in a pro am with him.  Yes, he does favor a fairly quick routine.

Side question, but do practice strokes of any kind ever really mimic what you do when you actually make the stroke?  I have always felt they do not.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Jason Topp

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Re: Will Rory help to speed up play?
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2011, 08:15:55 AM »
I sure hope so.  It was so enjoyable to see someone step up and hit it.

Jud_T

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Re: Will Rory help to speed up play?
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2011, 08:26:18 AM »
Unfortunately unless they actually get serious about assessing strokes for slow play, the answer is no.
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Brent Hutto

Re: Will Rory help to speed up play?
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2011, 09:18:47 AM »
Rory will eventually slow down. There's too much of a norm against playing briskly and doing so is actually maladaptive at the PGA Tour level. The field is forced to play at the speed of the slowpokes and eventually Rory will get tired of the days where he has to wait before every stinkin' shot. He won't get as slow as Ben Crane but he'll slow down.

Cliff Hamm

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Re: Will Rory help to speed up play?
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2011, 09:30:35 AM »
I certainly hope so and hope it translates to public golf courses picking up the pace....  Speaking of which looked up Hollywood.  Open to the public - 25 pounds weekdays.  15 if the guest of a member.  The difference between British Isles golf culture and America is incredible.  Is this possibly a factor in the current ascendency of European golfers?  For all you traditionalists, are you traditional enough to advocate for private clubs that also welcome the public as is true in 'the home of golf'?

Matthew Hunt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Will Rory help to speed up play?
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2011, 09:34:37 AM »
Johnny, well Rory's success speed up the game for us yesterday, as the prospect of his first major emptied the golf course! ;)  My Granddad, cousin and I got a mega-quick round at the 'wee course' at RCD and the only 2 group's on the course were playing 18 while we were on the first. The advantage of that was that we got in time to see the start of Rory's round! :)

William_G

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Re: Will Rory help to speed up play?
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2011, 10:55:07 AM »
Like it!

The only time I saw him get going too fast was on the 10th tee at Augusta, almost thought he got "fast played" by Cabrera.
It's all about the golf!

Matthew Petersen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Will Rory help to speed up play?
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2011, 02:10:29 PM »
I think there's some hope with potential role models like Rory and Dustin Johnson playing very quickly.

But, as other have said, it comes down to coaches in the early ranks--so long as they are making their guys play slow, you're not likely to see a major change on Tour.

The other issue is that quick play in a tournament is often punished. It was great to watch the Thurs/Fri grouping of Mickelson, Dustin Johnson, and Rory--they all play quick; there were times when Johnson would hit well before the camera, or even his other competitors, were ready for it. That was great, but the ultimate effect is that they ended up with very long waits on ever tee they reached. At one point of Friday the commentators (on the online feed anyway) were worrying whether Rory's great play would be affected by having to wait so long at every tee. Fortunately that didn't happen, but it's not hard to imagine it can drive a guy crazy.

Doug Wright

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Re: Will Rory help to speed up play?
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2011, 02:12:06 PM »
Johnny/Matthew,

Congratulations to you and your countrymen on Rory's victory. I've been following him closely since our trip to Northern Ireland in 2008 (where our paths crossed Matthew). Several players and caddies (eg at Portrush) gushed about this kid Rory, how he shot 61 @ Portrush at age 16 (I think), he's fearless, etc. etc. He seems like a natural talent.  

Unfortunately I don't think one 22 year old's quick play is going to change the culture of deliberate play that permeates American golf. I hope I'm wrong.
Twitter: @Deneuchre

Jim Eder

Re: Will Rory help to speed up play?
« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2011, 02:14:25 PM »
I think Matthew hit it right on the head.  One plays at the speed of the group in front in order to avoid waiting around and losing the momentum. I think it would have to be mandated by the Tour etc in order to get everyone moving and that one or a few players really can't make a difference. Congrats to Rory for not letting the waiting get to him, it isn't easy.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Will Rory help to speed up play?
« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2011, 02:40:17 PM »
Did anyone see the recent article in GOLF DIGEST comparing the time taken by amateurs and pros to play each shot?

The gist of it was that the pros were fairly consistent in their preparation -- with more attention to the second and third shots, and only less time for the fifth or sixth [tap in].  Whereas amateurs spent more time on the first shot or two, and then less and less time on every shot after that.

The problem was, the article implied [at least to me] that amateurs are bad because they don't concentrate, and that they need to take more time over each shot, like the pros!

Mark Smolens

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Will Rory help to speed up play?
« Reply #15 on: June 20, 2011, 03:19:36 PM »
I've been working pretty hard on my game (particularly the mental aspect) with a really good player, and had a recent lesson with Pat Goss (Northwestern's coach). The upshot of what I learned from them is that better players take more time to play because they have more things to think about than a player like me. Quite frankly, I never spent a great deal of time contemplating how much affect things like the wind, my lie, the slope of the surface my ball sits on, the weather conditions had on each shot. Since I couldn't ever really hit the ball left to right before, the concept of hitting the ball to "ride" the shape of the wind with the driver wasn't really a factor in my game. Choking down an inch when the ball's above my feet? Never really thought about that before -- many chunked irons of course followed. . .

I spent a lot of my time with Coach Goss talking about what his protege is thinking about when contemplating the correct shot shape, direction, and club. After speaking with him, it becomes clear to me that when you can really play, and have a multitude of options, the thought process is indeed important. And thus, I now have more patience when my buddy Nick spends what seems like an inordinate period of time getting ready to hit.

My goal, now, is to have a plan on each shot before I pull the trigger -- and I think all in all I'm playing much better (tho the results haven't been that much different in terms of the scores).

OTOH, I've also found that I can consider all of these additional factors w/o slowing anyone down. I'll also be hitting the putting green this afternoon to see if I can eliminate that practice putt and keep that left wrist locked in like our young friend from NI.

Jim Eder

Re: Will Rory help to speed up play?
« Reply #16 on: June 20, 2011, 03:50:05 PM »
The more strategic a golf course is the longer it probably takes the (strategically aware) golfer as he contemplates the best strategy to pursue.

Doug Siebert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Will Rory help to speed up play?
« Reply #17 on: June 21, 2011, 02:44:09 AM »
Tim,

I heard Johnny Miller say that yesterday on TV - that the problem starts early and THEN filters to the PGA Tour.  I would have thought it was the other way around, with the ultra slow players on the PGA Tour leading the way to slow play and affecting those who follow and emulate them.

As to Stockton's effect, I have been fortunate to get a few putting lessons from him while playing in a pro am with him.  Yes, he does favor a fairly quick routine.

Side question, but do practice strokes of any kind ever really mimic what you do when you actually make the stroke?  I have always felt they do not.


Jeff, I took what Miller said to mean that while it does start early and filters to the tour, that watching the slow play on tour is the root cause.  He was hoping that young players would emulate Rory rather than the hundred plus turtles on tour.  If he should turn out to be the next dominant player, having a dominant quick player could really do wonders in the long run.  Tiger may not be the slowest player on tour, but he's certainly much closer to that than the fastest, as was Nicklaus.  Between that and the guys on TV always talking about the importance of a preshot routine and praising players who restart it from scratch after any distraction, its pretty obvious that the tour was the start of it all.  Most golfers had never even heard of a preshot routine before TV, unless maybe they'd had formal instruction.
 
As for practice swings, when I take a practice swing its more just to move the muscles.  I swing so softly if you put a ball in front of it I'd probably hit it maybe 60% of its normal distance.  I take a few practice swings on a feel shot where I'm not swinging full out (since I'm not one of the robots using Pelz's stupid short game system)
My hovercraft is full of eels.

Richard Choi

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Will Rory help to speed up play?
« Reply #18 on: June 21, 2011, 03:56:49 AM »
No.

Bruce Hardie

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Re: Will Rory help to speed up play?
« Reply #19 on: June 21, 2011, 04:42:58 AM »
Oh please yes.

Surely a corollary of all the emptying of the mind requirements and being committed to the shot and all the guff is to just step up and hit the bloody thing.

Michael Goldstein

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Re: Will Rory help to speed up play?
« Reply #20 on: June 21, 2011, 04:49:30 AM »
The tour organisers should put Rory, Rory S and Dustin J off first group one day with Crane & ors following to show up the difference.  Nothing like a bit of name and shame.
@Pure_Golf

Mike Tanner

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Re: Will Rory help to speed up play?
« Reply #21 on: June 21, 2011, 01:13:30 PM »
Maybe not, but 'tis devoutly to be wished.
Life's too short to waste on bad golf courses or bad wine.

Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Will Rory help to speed up play?
« Reply #22 on: June 21, 2011, 01:50:30 PM »
I think he has a better chance to cure cancer.
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Mark Smolens

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Will Rory help to speed up play?
« Reply #23 on: June 21, 2011, 03:13:29 PM »
Of course, at Bob O Link they'd rather have cancer. . .

Anthony Butler

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Re: Will Rory help to speed up play?
« Reply #24 on: June 21, 2011, 04:00:06 PM »
The interesting comparison is how quickly most foreign players like McIlroy get around the course.

Based on my limited experience playing high-level amateur golf in both Australia and the US, the pace of play was always a constant concern in Australia. Despite the fact many rounds I played in NCGA events at Pebble, Poppy Hills etc. stretched out towards six hours, no-one seemed particularly anxious to do anything about it or gave it more than a passing mention in the clubhouse after the round... With so much time spent waiting on every tee, I had a number of conversations with guys on golf scholarships at UCLA etc... who said their coaches weren't trying to speed up play, they were more concerned with maintaining concentration over 5 1/2 hours.

The San Francisco City championship was a joke... 5.5 hours to get around Lincoln Park?

Some of the foreign PGA Tour players keep up their speed (Cabrera, McDowell, Ogilvy, Sabatini) for many years. Others like Stuart Appleby, who was medium fast when he started playing here 15 years ago, now behaves like an accountant doing someone's taxes, he spends so much time examining each and every shot.

Even though most amateurs have no real concept of a consistent pre-shot routine, they still seem to peck around for 45 seconds at least before hitting a shot... in many cases they don't even arrive at their ball or pull a club until after their cart partner has hit.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2011, 04:03:55 PM by Anthony Butler »
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