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Ted Cahill

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Where else in D.C. can the USGA hold an open?
« on: June 19, 2011, 10:14:47 PM »
If we must accept the east coast bias and allow that the D.C. area gets an open every 15 years- where else can it be held?  Rory's exceptional performance should be the focus, but for us in the treehouse- it was painful to watch iron shot after iron shot spin back next to the pin on an anonymous design.  This set-up was a far greater atrocity than Shinnecock '04.  OK, I'm a Californian and not familar with D.C. area golf- but there must be a better test in DC or Baltimore than "Congo"?  Where should it be held next in this area?
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Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: Where else in D.C. can the USGA hold an open?
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2011, 10:36:54 PM »
Logistics dictates a 2 course club:

http://www.trumpnationaldc.com/
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Jamie Van Gisbergen

Re: Where else in D.C. can the USGA hold an open?
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2011, 10:47:30 PM »
I lived in the area for 2 years, and I can't really think of any places that would have both the desire and ability to host the event. Ability both in the golf course to provide a tough test and ability to host all the facilities. Bulle Rock maybe, but that's much closer to the Philly market, and really in the Philly market. They could host the event at Lake Presidential... ::)

Sad to say, Trump DC is something of a bad joke.
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Kalen Braley

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Re: Where else in D.C. can the USGA hold an open?
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2011, 10:53:42 PM »
They could play the Norman course at Reston.  With all the water, it'd be a ball buster!!  ;D
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Phil McDade

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Re: Where else in D.C. can the USGA hold an open?
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2011, 11:01:24 PM »
Why should Washington DC get a US Open every 15 years? Is this another misguided federal mandate? ::)

Maybe the cart-first horse-later approach needs to be changed, and the USGA finds courses worthy of testing the best players in the world. Chicago -- three US Opens in the past 35 years, or about as many as Tulsa, OK -- seems to have several course that would be a better test than Congressional.
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mike_beene

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Re: Where else in D.C. can the USGA hold an open?
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2011, 11:37:29 PM »
Won't any DC course have the same oppressive humidity and resulting green softness issues?The break in the heat this week was lucky and will keep the usga from saying that dc is just too hot and humid.
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Sean Remington (SBR)

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Re: Where else in D.C. can the USGA hold an open?
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2011, 06:05:33 AM »
  There is RTJ Golf Club in N. Va. that has hosted President's Cups and has plenty of room around it.   Why not consider Woodmont C.C. in Rockville.  It's been a perineal host of the Open Sectional Qualifier.  Scores are respectable and it's pretty much normal Member set up for that.  They have 36 holes.  Other than that I think you need to head towards Baltimore and the few options up there.

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Jonathan Cummings

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Re: Where else in D.C. can the USGA hold an open?
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2011, 06:54:15 AM »
The new TPC across from Congo is 5 times harder.  In fact it is the most difficult golf course I've ever played.  Mike Davis saw it earlier this spring and said you could put the Open flags on the green and play The Open there today.  There is some evience for that.  At last year's Senior TPC at Potomac (won by O'Meara) Tom Watson cruised in at 20 over.  He lapped Fuzzy Zeoller who score 42 over for the 4 rounds.  JC
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Jay Flemma

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Re: Where else in D.C. can the USGA hold an open?
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2011, 07:56:04 AM »
Quote from: Steve_ Shaffer on June 19, 2011, 10:36:54 PM
Logistics dictates a 2 course club:

http://www.trumpnationaldc.com/
Not necessarily - Oakmont and Shinny aren't two course venues.  Neither is Southern Hills.  I agree once every 15 years is too much fror Congressional...once every 20-25 or make it a PGA Championship Venue, where no one would care if Rory shot 16-under or 6-under.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2011, 07:58:56 AM by Jay Flemma »
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Tim Martin

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Re: Where else in D.C. can the USGA hold an open?
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2011, 08:10:57 AM »
Quote from: Jay Flemma on June 20, 2011, 07:56:04 AM
Quote from: Steve_ Shaffer on June 19, 2011, 10:36:54 PM
Logistics dictates a 2 course club:

http://www.trumpnationaldc.com/
Not necessarily - Oakmont and Shinny aren't two course venues.  Neither is Southern Hills.  I agree once every 15 years is too much fror Congressional...once every 20-25 or make it a PGA Championship Venue, where no one would care if Rory shot 16-under or 6-under.

If you want it in the major rota at CCC then Jay is right that it should only be considered as a PGA venue.
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Jerry Kluger

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Re: Where else in D.C. can the USGA hold an open?
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2011, 09:34:32 AM »
Let's get something straight - the issue is not the golf course rather it was the conditions.  I was at the course starting Tuesday and let me tell you that if we had not gotten rain you probably would have gotten your desired results - burnt greens and high scores.  Does anyone remember the complaints last year about the conditions at Pebble? I can tell you that as of Tuesday those greens were stressed and a couple of days trying to firm them up would have been disaster for the club.  Last year at Ridgewood they shaved those greens way down and the members had to play temporaries for quite a while.  The only thing that they probably could have done was to play #6 as a par 4 which would have substantially raised the scores. 

BTW: Is there any question that the best player won the event - it was no fluke - he played the best and won and I don't care what course they would have been playing he played the best and deserved to win.

JC: Your never ending pitches for Avenel are getting old.
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Andy Hughes

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Re: Where else in D.C. can the USGA hold an open?
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2011, 09:57:40 AM »
Jerry, what hole were you on?
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Jonathan Cummings

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Re: Where else in D.C. can the USGA hold an open?
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2011, 10:05:04 AM »
Jerry - come on by maybe you can learn something about golf course architecture
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Jerry Kluger

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Re: Where else in D.C. can the USGA hold an open?
« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2011, 10:10:07 AM »
Andy: I was on 14.

JC: To paraphrase a politician: I have seen great architecture and TPC Potomac is not great architecture!
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Jay Flemma

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Re: Where else in D.C. can the USGA hold an open?
« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2011, 10:29:35 AM »
Jerry, yes the best player won, and yes Congressional has some really good greens, but why is it that every time we come to Congressional Blue we get low scores?  Not just this time but every time...the winning aggregates have been 276, ,281, 278, and 268.  Also, is it not ironic that the highest aggregate was at a PGA CHampionship?
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Jerry Kluger

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Re: Where else in D.C. can the USGA hold an open?
« Reply #15 on: June 20, 2011, 10:49:41 AM »
Jay: First off, I don't consider CCC to be great architecture - it is a great venue but not great architecture.  But then I have a hard time thinking of a course for the US Open and keeping the total score near level par where architecture is the reason for that result.  Look at ANGC, when the wind is up and the greens are firm, the scores go up just as they do at any course.  As I said earlier, have the USGA do their normal setup and make it a par 70 and the scores would go up substantially as the players would feel compelled to go at number 6 when they should lay up. 

I marshaled at number 14 and the players had a heck of a time with the hole and it is a true par 4.  The hole was designed with the fairway narrowing down to the 150 yard marker.  Most players used driver or 3 wood and got it down to about 175 -185 yards and the green is really elevated so they were hitting mid-irons into the green.  In four days I don't think I saw a second shot back up on the green although some would roll up close to the upper level and roll back down.  Many balls hit onto the upper level would hit and bounce over.   15 was also not a pushover and it would have been even better if they could have moved the tee further left. 

Come to think of it I believe it is the angles that are missing from CCC and would have made it more interesting an challenging.  You don't need doglegs but you do need angles - I don't remember much demand on the players to work the ball left or right off the tee on any particular hole.
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Jason Connor

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Re: Where else in D.C. can the USGA hold an open?
« Reply #16 on: June 20, 2011, 03:25:52 PM »
Quote from: Jay Flemma on June 20, 2011, 07:56:04 AM
Not necessarily - Oakmont and Shinny aren't two course venues.  Neither is Southern Hills.  I agree once every 15 years is too much fror Congressional...once every 20-25 or make it a PGA Championship Venue, where no one would care if Rory shot 16-under or 6-under.

Oakmont is effectively a 36 hole venue because they take over Oakmont North, a crappy muni that boarders #5.

In fact they closed North for the entire year last time the open came through.
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david h. carroll

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Re: Where else in D.C. can the USGA hold an open?
« Reply #17 on: June 20, 2011, 04:38:48 PM »
Baltimore Country Club.  36 holes.  East Course is beautiful Tillinghast architecture with more land for "elasticity"....No Reeses Pieces.
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Jim Hoak

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Re: Where else in D.C. can the USGA hold an open?
« Reply #18 on: June 20, 2011, 05:47:40 PM »
I think that many of you are being too harsh on Congressional.  If they had had rain in the weeks before to let the rough grow, and then hot dry weather for the tournament, instead of the opposite, the winning score would have been much closer to par.  As it was, only one guy tore it up. 
In my opinion, it is a great site for an Open--one of our major cities, very good facilities and logistics, and a very acceptable golf course.  I don't hold Shinnecock responsible for the weather tricks that happened there, and I don't think it's fair to hold Congressional to blame either.
Ease up!
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Brian Ross

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Re: Where else in D.C. can the USGA hold an open?
« Reply #19 on: June 20, 2011, 06:04:22 PM »
East Coast Bias?!? 

After next year, California will have had the Open 3 times out of the last 5 years!  ;)

But to answer your question, no, there is nowhere else in the DC area worthy...
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mike_beene

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Re: Where else in D.C. can the USGA hold an open?
« Reply #20 on: June 20, 2011, 07:41:18 PM »
jay,Southern Hills has the Coore and Crenshaw nine holes where they put all the tents
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Zack Molnar

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Re: Where else in D.C. can the USGA hold an open?
« Reply #21 on: June 20, 2011, 08:58:56 PM »
What about Caves Valley just north of Bmore? I know they had the NCAAs there a couple years ago, and they have plenty of land for tents and expanding the course. Its kind of in a remote location though, which could be a detraction. I have never played there, so I cant comment on quality of holes/architecture, but I have heard its a pretty stern test.
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Ted Cahill

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Re: Where else in D.C. can the USGA hold an open?
« Reply #22 on: June 20, 2011, 10:14:02 PM »
Quote from: Brian Ross on June 20, 2011, 06:04:22 PM
East Coast Bias?!? 

After next year, California will have had the Open 3 times out of the last 5 years!  ;)

But to answer your question, no, there is nowhere else in the DC area worthy...
Point well taken.  I suppose I agree with Geoff Shackelford, the Open should always be held in California- and not because that is where I reside.  The weather and course conditions are perfect in June.  Torrey Pines is a perfect example- a middling design- but conditions allow the USGA to control the course and we get an exciting Open.  Look how tough Pebble Beach becomes for an Open, compared to the Crosby- June weather vs. February weather.  California has a deep bench, we haven't used Rivera in years!  OK, I realize it would not be fair to have it in CA every year- but when the USGA feels compelled to host it in places like DC and, sorry, Bethpage- we get left with lousy Opens because the weather is such an unknown.  East coast fans are great- I don't mean to slight them- let's keep the East Coast rota to Shinnecock, Oakmont, Merion and Winged Foot.  We could go east, west, east, west in alternating years- and leave the midwest to the PGA Championship.
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“Bandon Dunes is like Chamonix for skiers or the
North Shore of Oahu for surfers,” Rogers said. “It is
where those who really care end up.”

Jamie Van Gisbergen

Re: Where else in D.C. can the USGA hold an open?
« Reply #23 on: June 20, 2011, 10:27:22 PM »
Ted what about Pinehurst #2? That place can provide more than enough to test the best.

Back to a course in DC, RTJ Golf Club would be a decent place to have the event, as good as any other option, that has been mentioned all ready I think. But like I said before, you're really running thin on options in the area. There just isn't much elite level golf around the DC area, sadly.
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Patrick_Mucci

Re: Where else in D.C. can the USGA hold an open?
« Reply #24 on: June 20, 2011, 10:43:20 PM »
Brian Ross has it right.

Jonathan, the USGA isn't going to a TPC course in your lifetime.
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