A question about Merion and the U.S. Open

[Patrick_Mucci]

So, I'm watching the U.S. Open today, and a golfer gets up on the 10th tee and the announcer says, "Today, the 10th hole is playing at 214 yards."  Shortly thereafter the announcer says, " he's hitting a six (6-iron)"  The golfer then hits it to about 10 feet.

Now I know the hole plays a little down hill, but, a 6-iron from 214 ?

So now I'm thinking back to the 1950 U.S. Open when Hogan hits his historic 1-iron on the 18th hole.
Many years after that event I recall hitting a much shorter iron from the same tees, into the 18th hole.

A 6-iron form 214 ?  ?  ?

Now the announcers are talking about the young amateurs and they're talking about how one of them routinely hits it 320+.

Previously, the President of the USGA was interviewed and a chart was posted indicating which tees you should play from, based on your driving distance.

Earlier, they were disecting the length that CCC played in previous Opens.

So, as I filter all of this data/info and knowing how Merion is land locked in many areas, I'm thinking, how are they going to set up Merion in the face of the absurd distances the modern golfer hits the ball.

Then I'm thinking, has the USGA set up CCC to allow for low to very low U.S. Open scoring to prepare the golfing world for super low scores at Merion ?

Or, will the intermediate rough cut be gone for future Opens.

Or, will Merion have to have ribbon thin fairways with brutal rough along with super firm and fast greens in order to prevent low to super low scoring ?

And, what happens if Mother Nature doesn't co-operate.

It seems unfortunate that distance has been allowed to run amuck.

A course that saw RTJ complete the slam in 1930, Hogan's comback 1950 open, Nicklaus and Trevino's 1971 battle and Graham's amazing 1981 F&G final round, shouldn't be grotesquely reconfigured in order to defend par, and, it shouldn't be the Open course to replicate PGA desert golf scoring.

How can the course defend itself/par without getting gimmicky ?   

[Phil McDade]

By bringing in Tom Meeks.

A challenge, no doubt. But I think you've hit on several likely outcomes -- narrow fairways, very thick rough, and very high green speeds. One hopes only temporary changes are put in place, as opposed to denuding slopes and contours of greens in particular.

The course does have wicker baskets in its favor.

[Bill_McBride]

Look for hard greens, single file fairways and 6" rough.  Think Winged Foot or other courses when +7 won.

[Bart Bradley]

Pat:

There are several new tees at Merion that will make some of the holes very, very long while other holes are land-locked and will be short.  The key to the scoring this week is the softness of the greens.  The players are stopping the balls quickly even from the rough.  Merion, like most any course today, will be vulnerable to the pros if the greens are soft.  However, if the greens are firm, Merion will hold up just fine.

Bart

[Bart Bradley]

Oh, and I don't think they will place the hole locations at the base of backstops and in bowls when they play at Merion.  Why are the doing that at CCC?  I don't get it.

Bart

[JR Potts]

No.

[Mark McKeever]

I guess the rough is going to be brutal at Merion right?

Mark

[Tim Martin]

I guess the rough is going to be brutal at Merion right?

Mark

Mark-Don`t you think it will have to be more so than other recent venues due to it`s shortish nature? After what is going on right now at Congressional I don`t think the USGA wants a repeat of the low scoring any time soon. 

[Mark McKeever]

I can't see them using the graduated rough at Merion.

Mark

[Joe Bausch]

Within 15 posts Wilson, Whigham, or CBM will be mentioned and this thread will be on its way to 75 pages.   

Anyhow, if really f&f conditions happen in June, 2013, I think the grand old lady will be just fine.

[Dan Herrmann]

Joe's right - it all depends on the weather.   Our June weather can be amazing or amazingly wet. 

The course did just fine during the US Am and the Walker Cup.  Granted, Open competitors are better, but the driving distances are in the same ballpark.

[Pete_Pittock]

Merion won't be stimping at 14 and have the benign hole locations dictated by such hazardous speeding.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Dan,

The AM and the Walker Cup are at different times of year and Mother Nature can undo the best agronomic and maintenance conditions.

Pete,

You have to wonder what the outcome of the debates will be when it comes to accommodating high stimp speeds and altering green slopes and contours.

Most on this site are probably opposed to softening the greens as WFW did.

But how does the course defend itself from an onslaught of scoring without resorting to "goofy golf" ?

And, why would you want to host an Open if there was any possibility that the course might be compromised ?

Has the distance problem rendered all but a few courses ill prepared to host Events for the best golfers in the world ?

[John_Conley]

Has the distance problem rendered all but a few courses ill prepared to host Events for the best golfers in the world ?

Wind helps courses defend themselves.  The U.S. Open at Shinnecock and most British Opens are examples.

There wasn't any significant wind this week, was there?  Appeared to be very soft greens to, at least by U.S.G.A. standards.

[Paul Jones]

Why does a course have to defend par against the greatest golfers in the world when they are playing at there best?  

What percentage of golfers can hit a 6 iron 214 yards or even 180 yards for that matter?

[mike_beene]

Congo was wide enough and the rough thin enough that a lot of drivers were hit and most of the approaches for the young guys were wedges and short irons.Assuming more rough at Merion,won't you see more two and three irons off tees and the same 110 to 150 yard approaches on many holes?Plus Congo was set up with a number of up tees so the total yardage was not 7500 each day.Bet the scoring at Merion will be higher because absent heavy rains the greens will be tougher.

[Kris Shreiner]

Good posts! The obscene distances being reached by the equipment/ball combinations are rendering it more difficult for all but a handful of our classic, Major layouts to be presented in anything less than "vodoo" set-ups. Merion has the goods to offer a stern test if the rain stays away. Seldom does wind present sufficient strength during that time of year to be a factor there unless fronts are moving through.

Penal rough, narrow, firm fairways and toasty greens, with those generally, smaller, more contoured surfaces of Merion adding to the difficulty, would seem to be the direction the course presentation would trend.

It was interesting to hear the President of the Olympic Club comment towards the end of the telecast today that because they get little rain in June, they'll have no problem with softness....BULLSTINKY!!! Pebble got NO RAIN in 2000 and that fog rolled in on a course that was over-watered heading into the event, due to some warm days on the eve of the tournament, and the course didn't recover it's firmness til Saturday.

I remember watching the replay after our round that day in 2000, Johnny commenting on Thursday that year that the greens were rolling 10-11 on the Stimp...NFW! I was in the last group out that day, 3:00pm, off one...it was one of the last years that everyone still went off #one. I NEVER saw #1 look worse or play slower... on a day with no rain. It wasn't rolling over a 7 max! Hole #Two, which was a re-done green at that time, was newer and was equally slow, just not as bumpy.

Mike Davis mentioned that if he had anything he could do over at Congressional this week it would have been "having the greens drier going into the week."

He and the USGA team have a tough task and they get alot right...but in my opinion this tendency... to err on more moisture than less... costs them the ability to manage firmness if rain or fog arrives. Once turf is soft, only Sun and Wind can dry it out.

The Sub-Air factor I'm not sure about, but to redo greens, especially great ones at those course that have them, just to install that system doesn't seem like the best trade-off. Congressional has it, I believe, so why wasn't it used? If it was, it clearly had little positive impact.

Any firsthand thoughts on Sub-Air's ability to keep surfaces firm while also keeping stressed, newer turf healthy for prolonged periods of time like the week of a Major?

Cheers,
Kris

[Patrick_Mucci]

Why does a course have to defend par against the greatest golfers in the world when they are playing at there best?  


To determine who the best all around golfer is.
The U.S. Open has historically made that determination with PAR being a significant benchmark


What percentage of golfers can hit a 6 iron 214 yards or even 180 yards for that matter?

Probably all of them playing today

[Pete_Pittock]

Pat,
I don't think the normal June weather will be much different when comparing Philadelphia and the DC. Flew across country to watch the Walker and Crump Cups and got soaked by heavy rains at Merion. The course acquitted itself well.  I think Congessional's rough was about 1- 1 1/2" too sparse much easier than I saw at the W.C.  The bunkering at Merion is way more penal. Can't compare green sizes, but Merion's are much more mature and poa, harder to keep on line for the leaders on the weekend.

[Dan Herrmann]

Check out http://www.gcsaa.tv/view.php?id=199

It's Matt and his team's 2009 Walker Cup work chronicled very nicely.

[Mike_Young]

Sure the firmness of greens had much to do with all of this but I think the containment of greens has just as much to do with it.  If you can spin a ball back on a green where ball can continue well past the pin or even off of the green vs. spinning one back into a "pocket or mitt area" then the spin can hurt as much as help.  And if the pin locations are close enough to the edges of such slopes that a shot intended to "spin back" is the least bit long...then the same shot barely over the green has totally different consequences....and totally different approach shot management for the golfer.  BUT the thing that I think has to be overcome for Merion to "holdup" is the rough.  The one thing that made an impression on me this week at CCC was the strength of the players in the rough....these guys were still reaching greens where just a few years back it was a lay-up.  The only way to control distance on these guys is to make the rough penal enough for them not to go there....AND if that is done a Merion through the green it will show up in the scores...as much as in recovery around the greens as in tee shot strategy and approach management....

[JR Potts]

I really think that this board (and the USGA and PGA) have lost track of how good these guys are.  I hear people talking about long rough as the answer....it's not.  The guys at the top of the leaderboard don't hit it in the rough - and when they do, they chunk it out and hit a wedge to a foot.

Regarding spinning the ball back to the hole....they only do that because they can.  If they were unable to spin the ball back, they woulld just flight the ball so it takes one hop and stops.

The guys leading the US Open have every single shot that one can envision and dozens that we don't even consider.

The only way to get them into trouble is by plinko-ing the golf course like we saw at Pebble last year...I much prefered Open 2011 to Open 2010.

Yes, Merion can grow 7 inch rough and make the greens rock-hard in an effort to impact scoring.  However, given the weather conditions, that may just close down Merion for the rest of the year as it attempts to grow grass on it's greens.  Mother nature can't be tamed and the USGA should not be in the business of destroying golf course for one week of entertainment.  Afterall, it's the members that support that place.

I suspect that Congressional got to a point where if they tried stressing it anymore, they would have lost the whole thing...and that can happen anywhere.

Merion may be ablet o defend par....may...but the attempt to do so may just morph Merion into something that none of us are that happy with....well, most of us.

[Dan Boerger]

Patrick - Good and timely comment.

Much of the nuance of Merion will exist far below the drives and approach shots of today's top professionals.

If they keep the rough up (no easy task unless the spectators are all in bleachers), 300 yard 3W will iron stingers will the call off the tee.

Make the greens crazy fast? The contours of many of those greensites could make the course near unplayable if that's the case.

So, this all begs the question ... why make it silly difficult? Lowest score wins, and who cares if half the field is in red figures.

I don't!

[Tom ORourke]

I don't think the graduated rough will be used at Merion. As a spectator, I do not like it. I had been to prior events at Winged Foot and Bethpage. The new graduated rough pushed the spectators way, way back from where they used to be. There weres spots at Bethpage, like on the 5th hole, where the ropes were so far back the spectators were up in the hills. It was extrememely dangerous as the grass was dry during the practice rounds and people were sliding down the slopes, getting injured. Merion is so tight that trying that system is going to push the spectators either into the trees with obstructed views (which I saw at WF) or, between 2 and 5 for example, they will get crammed into each other. It may be good for the players but it is a pain for the spectators. That may keep the scores a little higher. 

[Phil McDade]

Mike Davis mentioned that if he had anything he could do over at Congressional this week it would have been "having the greens drier going into the week."

He and the USGA team have a tough task and they get alot right...but in my opinion this tendency... to err on more moisture than less... costs them the ability to manage firmness if rain or fog arrives. Once turf is soft, only Sun and Wind can dry it out.

Thank you, Mr. Shreiner -- a point raised two years re. the historical low scoring at BBlack during the first two rounds there:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,40214.0.html