Did Tillinghast design a mediocre or poor golf course ?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Not long ago I played Ridgewood, (NJ) and again marveled at the quality of the 27  holes there.

I recently played Somerset Hills and was recently invited to Baltusrol and Shackamaxon.

Friends recently played Quaker Ridge, Winged Foot (East & West) and Fenway and were raving about all four courses.

While his body of work is not voluminous, it appears, from the 15 or so courses I've played, to be exceptional.

Did he design any mediocre to poor golf courses ?

If so, which ones ?

[Mark Johnson]

9 holes at Erie Golf Club is very urban blah (admitedly on a horrible piece of land)

I wasn't impressed by scarsdale either, wouldn't call it bad, but definitely not memorable in any way.   Doesnt have the normal AWT strong bunkering

[Garland Bayley]

Lafayette, Syracuse, NY

[Phil Benedict]

9 holes at Erie Golf Club is very urban blah (admitedly on a horrible piece of land)

I wasn't impressed by scarsdale either, wouldn't call it bad, but definitely not memorable in any way.   Doesnt have the normal AWT strong bunkering

I wouldn't want Scarsdale as my regular course either, although it definitely qualifies as quirky.

[PCCraig]

Tillinghast's only design in Ohio, Lakewood CC in Westlake, OH is pretty good, but most would probably find it pretty mediocre. Recent minor renovation work has spruced the course up a bit.

One you really don't hear much about on a national level is Golden Valley G&CC in Golden Valley, MN. Despite the not-so-great name, the golf course is just awesome and would be enjoyed by many on here. Really severe greens, awesomely deep and penal bunkering, and really neat fairway contouring...it's a tough but fun golf course. Currently it's on the GW "top 200" classic list.

[JMEvensky]

The sound you hear is Phil Young's teeth gnashing at the topic--Tillinghast and mediocre in the same sentence.

How much AWT is left at Metropolis?

[Mark Johnson]

Tillinghast's only design in Ohio, Lakewood CC in Westlake, OH is pretty good, but most would probably find it pretty mediocre. Recent minor renovation work has spruced the course up a bit.

One you really don't hear much about on a national level is Golden Valley G&CC in Golden Valley, MN. Despite the not-so-great name, the golf course is just awesome and would be enjoyed by many on here. Really severe greens, awesomely deep and penal bunkering, and really neat fairway contouring...it's a tough but fun golf course. Currently it's on the GW "top 200" classic list.

+ 1.  Love that course.   can definitely name several top 100 courses over which i would much rather play Golden Valley.   Also, it has been lengthed well for the longer hitter while still maintaining its character

[Carl Rogers]

Roanoke Country Club, Roanoke, VA ... I know Lester George did a Restoration? Remodeling? Some kind of Work on it a few years back??  Lester, are you reading this thread?

I played there a few times 10 years ago or so.  Having never played another Tillie course I cannot compare, though it is obvious this course is smaller and minor compared to others.  Very rolling property ... Par 3's are strong holes.

[Paul Jones]

I played a course in Tulsa, OK that he did that was mediocre at best - Tulsa CC. 

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Re: Metropolis

Here is my previous thread:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,41469.0.html

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Re: Tillinghast in "Coal Country"

Here is my previous thread:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,14537.0.html

I have not played Irem Temple or Valley but I'm planning to do so this summer. Wyoming Valley, although not rated in the Top 20 in PA,is definitely a fun course to play.

[JMEvensky]

Re: Metropolis

Here is my previous thread:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,41469.0.html

Thanks.

[Alex Lagowitz]

IMO, his best work is not evident at Forest Hill FC and Suburban CC
The original course at Essex County Country Club was a tilly, but the membership felt the course was weak and so Raynor/Banks rebuilt the new course

[Andy Troeger]

Rock Hill CC in South Carolina is by no means a poor course, but nothing special either.

[Tom_Doak]

Patrick:

I find it hard to imagine that Mr. Tilinghast avoided at least a couple of projects in his career where the client and the parameters of the project turned out not to be what he expected when he signed the contract.  It happens to all of us!

[Kyle Harris]

The work Tillinghast did (though NLE) at Old York Road CC has an oral tradition of being fairly pedestrian. The gutting the of the remaining holes has eliminated most of the remaining Tillinghast though some traces remain - including a moat hole.

The Tillinghast holes (8, 12-16) at Galen Hall CC are eclipsed by the contributions of both Alex Findlay and William Gordon.

[Tom MacWood]

Poor or mediocre, probably not, but he did redesign Shawnee two or three times, in short order, after first laying it out. Not totally unexpected considering it was it was his first project.

[Sam Morrow]

I played a course in Tulsa, OK that he did that was mediocre at best - Tulsa CC. 

Tulsa CC isn't anything special but I look forward to seeing the work Rees Jones has done.

[Sam Morrow]

No matter who you are, if you design that many courses you are going to have some clunkers, it's a numbers game. Looking at the Tillinghast Society site I am going through his courses that I've played and don't consider more than mediocre are Cedar Crest and Corsicana.  I played Cedar Crest 2 weeks ago and it has some of the worst par 3's I may have ever seen. Corsicana is an interesting case. I used to be an assistant there and at one time it was one of the best courses in Texas but much of the work Tilly did in 1926 is gone. The most interesting feature lost is the old 10th green, at one time it was said to be the largest green in the world and had some crazy slopes in it. Over time this green has simply become a big, flat green.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Tom Doak,

One would expect so, however, my limited play of his courses didn't bear that out and I was curious about the AWT's I hadn't played.

[Ed Oden]

Patrick, every Tilly course I have played has been truly top notch.  But I suspect that is a bit deceiving since, like many of the ODGs, much of his lesser work probably doesn't exist anymore.  Work that didn't pass muster has likely long since been redesigned or replaced by someone else.  So I don't think you can assume that he never swung and missed just because what remains today is first rate.

[Morgan Clawson]

Tilly built Rochester Country Club in Rochester, MN.

It opened for play in 1927.

Unfortunately, a 15 year tree planting program began in the 30s. More unfortunatley was the choice of trees - pines. They liked the pines so much they planted 30,000 of them and incorporated one of them into their logo.

The pines line the fairways, narrow the playing field, and make escape shots difficult.

Click on the website. The two photos that scroll-through on the main page tell you everything you need to know: http://www.rgcc.org/

[Patrick_Mucci]

Morgan,

Absent the trees, what's the quality of the architecture, the course ?

[Barry Stern]

I agree with Pat that Ridgewood is a truly exceptional golf course, and I have likewise enjoyed all my rounds at Fenway and QR over the years.  I'm wondering where the newly named Paramount (formerly Dellwood) fits into the discussion of regional Tillie courses; does anyone have any recent experience with the club?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Barry,

I liked Dellwood.

There were a few holes that were either new or redesigned, but, I liked the golf course, it was unique and fun to play.