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Wade Whitehead

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Re: Who loves Congressional? Actually, who even likes it?
« Reply #25 on: June 16, 2011, 04:30:54 PM »
I wonder what folks would think of Congressional if it had a dusty gravel parking lot, a trailer for a clubhouse, no pool, and no food and beverage.  The experience gains as much favor as the architecture or golf course itself.  Like other noteworthy places the aura overshadows the golf course and influences judgement for nearly every guest.

WW

Jud_T

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Re: Who loves Congressional? Actually, who even likes it?
« Reply #26 on: June 16, 2011, 04:46:42 PM »
After watching some of the telecast or reading more about the course, how many guys who haven't played it have moved the course on to their must-play list?  How many guys who have played it have it on their must-play again list?
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Phil Benedict

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Re: Who loves Congressional? Actually, who even likes it?
« Reply #27 on: June 16, 2011, 05:27:34 PM »
All parklands look the same on TV to me anyway.

Does Augusta look the same? It's the only parkland course that really stands out to me, looks-wise (assuming one doesn't count Oakmont as parkland, obviously :)).


To me the obvious reasons Augusta looks different is because of the flowering shrubs and trees that are blooming during the Masters.  Someone who played Augusta in the fall posted pictures here after the round.  It struck me that Augusta didn't look so different from other courses once you get outside of that window when everything is blooming. 

Carl Nichols

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Re: Who loves Congressional? Actually, who even likes it?
« Reply #28 on: June 16, 2011, 05:42:25 PM »
After watching some of the telecast or reading more about the course, how many guys who haven't played it have moved the course on to their must-play list?  How many guys who have played it have it on their must-play again list?

Jud:
What's your answer?  And what other Open courses since 1997 would you put into that category?  For me, it would be only Pebble, Oakmont and Shinnecock.

Alex Lagowitz

Re: Who loves Congressional? Actually, who even likes it?
« Reply #29 on: June 16, 2011, 05:45:57 PM »
I am not a fan of the "US open restoration"
As also seen at Baltusrol Lower, Rees loves to make tight fairways with strings of bunkers flanking both sides
Most of the green entries are narrow and the length is outrageous
Although Congressional may have been a great course in the Emmett era, the Rees jones redo doesnt do it for me

George Pazin

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Re: Who loves Congressional? Actually, who even likes it?
« Reply #30 on: June 16, 2011, 05:48:38 PM »
To me the obvious reasons Augusta looks different is because of the flowering shrubs and trees that are blooming during the Masters.  Someone who played Augusta in the fall posted pictures here after the round.  It struck me that Augusta didn't look so different from other courses once you get outside of that window when everything is blooming. 

Interesting point, Phil. You're probably right in many ways. The other thing that really sticks out to me about Augusta is the bold contours of fairways and greens, and the obvious lack of rough (used to be more obvious...). But those bold contours could simply be the excellent TV work. I remember being similarly struck by Oakland Hills, now that I think of it. But not so much by WFW, Oak Hill, Medinah, Bethpage, etc.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Mark Saltzman

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Re: Who loves Congressional? Actually, who even likes it?
« Reply #31 on: June 16, 2011, 05:56:01 PM »
To me the obvious reasons Augusta looks different is because of the flowering shrubs and trees that are blooming during the Masters.  Someone who played Augusta in the fall posted pictures here after the round.  It struck me that Augusta didn't look so different from other courses once you get outside of that window when everything is blooming.  

But those bold contours could simply be the excellent TV work. I remember being similarly struck by Oakland Hills

I cannot speak for Congressional, but the contours at OHCC are not just clever camera work, they are quite bold indeed.  The fairway contouring on holes like 1, 2, 5, 10 and 11 is bold, dramatic and very interesting to play.

ed_getka

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Who loves Congressional? Actually, who even likes it?
« Reply #32 on: June 16, 2011, 06:07:18 PM »
I walked the course yesterday with my son. We had a pleasant day and the course seems like a bit of a slog. There was much more elevation change than I anticipated. Quite a few elevated tees and some strange shaping in the greens. Unfortunately I didn't see any holes that I thought were really interesting from an architecture standpoint. Not really a course I am interested in ever playing, but I think it will provide a good playing field for the competition. I'm sure "golf fans" will enjoy #6, 10, 11, and 18 with the water disasters lurking. I didn't even think about it yesterday, but when golfers started right off on #10 today it became obvious that that is one brutal start to a course that is clearly not designed to be played in that order. #16 is shaved over the back and the right side feeds down into thick pine straw beds. They have a few strange chipping areas (back of #5), but the one on #16 with the pine straw is the strangest I've seen. Hopefully it will be an exciting competition. Go Rory Mc.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2011, 05:04:11 PM by ed_getka »
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

Frank M

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Re: Who loves Congressional? Actually, who even likes it? New
« Reply #33 on: June 16, 2011, 06:30:46 PM »
I have not played the course, so I cannot speak specifically about it, but the only thing I like from what I've seen on television is its scale. Other than that I do not like the course aesthetics at all.

Furthermore, I don't think I need to see the course in person to say I do not like the 10th whatsoever.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2024, 06:53:46 PM by Frank M »

michael damico

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Re: Who loves Congressional? Actually, who even likes it?
« Reply #34 on: June 16, 2011, 06:41:49 PM »
I cannot speak for Congressional, but the contours at OHCC are not just clever camera work, they are quite bold indeed.  The fairway contouring on holes like 1, 2, 5, 10 and 11 is bold, dramatic and very interesting to play.

hole 9? You mention all the holes that utilize the two profound ridges of the site. The West course has several bold contours as well.

I heard through the grapevine that all the changes made for the 89 Open, 2003 PGA and 2008 Senior PGA are going to be reworked for the 2013 PGA
"without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible"
                                                                -fz

Mark Saltzman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Who loves Congressional? Actually, who even likes it?
« Reply #35 on: June 16, 2011, 06:50:39 PM »
I cannot speak for Congressional, but the contours at OHCC are not just clever camera work, they are quite bold indeed.  The fairway contouring on holes like 1, 2, 5, 10 and 11 is bold, dramatic and very interesting to play.

hole 9? You mention all the holes that utilize the two profound ridges of the site. The West course has several bold contours as well.

I heard through the grapevine that all the changes made for the 89 Open, 2003 PGA and 2008 Senior PGA are going to be reworked for the 2013 PGA

Michael,

No doubt the contours on 9 green are dramatic, but nowhere near the extent of the contouring of the fairways of the holes I previously mentioned.

The West course?  Are you referring to the North course?  If so, I will have to take your word for it as I have not yet played it.

Edit: Michael, after re-reading your post, I realize you're referring to Oak Hill CC and I was referring to Oakland Hills CC.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2011, 06:52:23 PM by Mark Saltzman »

Kalen Braley

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Re: Who loves Congressional? Actually, who even likes it?
« Reply #36 on: June 16, 2011, 06:55:17 PM »

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Who loves Congressional? Actually, who even likes it?
« Reply #37 on: June 16, 2011, 07:51:52 PM »
After watching some of the telecast or reading more about the course, how many guys who haven't played it have moved the course on to their must-play list?  How many guys who have played it have it on their must-play again list?

Jud:
What's your answer?  And what other Open courses since 1997 would you put into that category?  For me, it would be only Pebble, Oakmont and Shinnecock.

It's not on my list, but that has more to do with my personal tastes and mediocre game.  I imagine the real sticks on this board would seek out a game there to test their mettle.  As for venues since '97, Shinny and Oakmont are definitely on the wish list and Pinehurst, Pebble, Olympia Fields and Winged Foot are on the must-play again list...
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Andy Troeger

Re: Who loves Congressional? Actually, who even likes it?
« Reply #38 on: June 16, 2011, 08:26:57 PM »
Interestingly, to me Congressional is one of the courses where the holes with water features definitely stood out as being the most interesting on the course. That's not always the case, but I also don't really know what it means. I do think it looks/plays better in person than what you'll see on TV, mainly because it has more ground movement and contour than will be picked up by the cameras. Its no flat parkland course by any means. Its certainly a long and tough course that's designed to be a test as opposed to a stroll in the park, but it does a good job of being that test. 18 is a really good finisher that should lead to some drama if its close at the end.

Terry Lavin

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Re: Who loves Congressional? Actually, who even likes it?
« Reply #39 on: June 16, 2011, 08:57:43 PM »
It reminds me of Oakland Hills, Olympia Fields and Medinah, muscular parkland courses that have stood the test of time for tournament golf.  I'd like to play it, though I would fairly beg to play it from 6400 yards so I might enjoy it more.  And I'd hope that the greens would be better, health-wise.
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Andy Troeger

Re: Who loves Congressional? Actually, who even likes it?
« Reply #40 on: June 16, 2011, 09:40:33 PM »
It reminds me of Oakland Hills, Olympia Fields and Medinah, muscular parkland courses that have stood the test of time for tournament golf.  I'd like to play it, though I would fairly beg to play it from 6400 yards so I might enjoy it more.  And I'd hope that the greens would be better, health-wise.

Terry,
I agree with the comparison to Medinah. I played Congressional further up than Medinah, which I think made it seem a little easier. In reality, the difficulty was probably similar from the members tees.

John_Cullum

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Re: Who loves Congressional? Actually, who even likes it?
« Reply #41 on: June 16, 2011, 09:45:15 PM »
Congressional is high on my list of courses I would like to play. I am of the opinion it is disliked by many because it is de riguer of the GCA set to dislike it
"We finally beat Medicare. "

Charlie Visconsi

Re: Who loves Congressional? Actually, who even likes it?
« Reply #42 on: June 16, 2011, 10:10:51 PM »
Having played it a few times, it is a very playable (from the normal tees) course without any real memorable golf holes except for #18.  It reminds me alot of Olympia Fields and Westchester CC.  It is important to remember that the US Open needs 36 holes so they can take over the other 18 for other purposes or have tons of space like at Oakmont.  However, I think it is great that they have the open at different spots around the country not just in NY and California so I am all for them having a periodic Open at Congressional.  Given the history and the ability to stretch out the course, I think it should be in the open rota.  Next year's open venue at Olympic is also similar to Congressional, not memorable but a really good golf course.

Steve Goodwin

Re: Who loves Congressional? Actually, who even likes it?
« Reply #43 on: June 17, 2011, 01:59:18 AM »
Watching McIlroy et al play Congressional has made me like the course more, far more, than I did a few days ago.  With respect to those of you watching on TV and unfamiliiar with the course, the course presents challenges these top players to come up with some extraordinary shots.   On some holes, the demands of the shot are obvious -- anybody happen to see Ooosthuizen hit that 4-iron onto the 18th green?  Off a downhill lie, he hit an approach well over 200 yards, just a touch of draw, chased it on and made the birdie, a rare birdie on that hole.
The holes that have been mentioned in previous posts -- the 10th, 18th, 6th -- present obvious challenges, but some of the lesser holes have obviously got the guys thnking and trying out different strategies.  The 8th, for instance, might be one of the weakest holes out there, a 354 yard par 4, slight dogleg left.   When the McIlroy-Johnson-Mickelson group played it, DJ hit driver and almost drove the green -- he right in the throat.  Dont know what Rory hit (hybrid?) but he was in the fairway about 70 yards back.  Mickelson did what he does and was WAY left.   McIlroy could have played a couple of different kinds of shots to get at a hole location behind a bunker, went with a low-ish pitch that he nipped.   Ran about 1 feet past the hole.  Likewsie, DJ had several options from his perfect position in the throat of the green, and threw it in low -- and it checked up faster than he wanted.  Neither of them were able to convert the birdie, though they had good looks.  As for Phil, he damn near saved par.
The point is that this short hole, a cupcake on the card, was able to be played in such different ways.   Earlier, I watched the Spanish trio play the 8th, and they too had different strategies -- Jimenez laid back, Quiros damn near drove the green on the fly.   The 8th isn't supposed to be reachable, but somebody will get there.  In any case, it was fun to watch as the players tried to peel this particular onion.  I'd even say the same for the short 7th, a 9iron shot for most of the field, where they had fits with the front pin position, most going long.  To hold the front of the green, you had to spin the bejesus out of the shot -- as Sergio did, taking a divot the size of shoe. 
Most boring hole I watched was the par 5 9th -- drive, layup, wedge.  Straight ahead 3 shotter. 
I wouldn't call Congressional an aesthetic delight, but I wouldn't call it dull and formulaic, either.  Not by a long shot.  I've been seeing lots of different club selections off the tees, and players attempting many different kinds of shots, both long and short.  The bunkers might be cookie cutter, but pay attention to the way these guys are trying to get at the hole . . .

Cabell Ackerly

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Re: Who loves Congressional? Actually, who even likes it?
« Reply #44 on: June 17, 2011, 09:51:02 AM »
I most recently played Congressional just under 3 weeks ago and would say that it doesn’t play as narrow as it looks on TV. Not only are the hole corridors plenty wide, but the fairways are not nearly as narrow as they appear on TV.  This is coming from a guy who hates trees and narrow fairways.

Everyone loves to give the place hard time, but 99% of the members love it. And isn’t that really all that matters? They’re proud of Big Blue and enjoy the test it provides on a weekly basis. Played from the right tees, the course is actually quite manageable and fun. The green complexes are interesting and varied, and while the fairway bunkering may not satisfy all, the topography and direction of the holes does require one to think their way around.

No question places like Pebble, Merion and Shinnecock are higher up most people’s favorite/must-play lists, but I think DC is a good fit for a US Open in the mid-Atlantic area, and Congressional is far and away the best place to host in the DC area. It may not be the architectural gem that some on here crave, but it’s certainly more than capable of testing the best players in the world for our national Open.

Jim Hoak

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Re: Who loves Congressional? Actually, who even likes it?
« Reply #45 on: June 17, 2011, 10:33:15 AM »
I agree with the comment that there is often too much "group-think" on this GCA site.  I have played Congresssional several times, and I love it--or at least really like it.  It is big and muscular as has been said; there are many excellent holes (#11 and #18 for example); few weak holes (maybe #8); and it is a challenge, but fun, to play.  In some ways it belongs to a different era, when country clubs were retreats and the golf course was only part of the experience.
I don't think it is absolutely necessary that someone have played a course to comment on it on this site, but I for one tend to refrain from commenting if I have only TV knowledge of the course.  I would say that having played this course it is a good spot for the Open, and a course I would recommend playing to anyone who hasn't played it.

rboyce

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Re: Who loves Congressional? Actually, who even likes it?
« Reply #46 on: June 17, 2011, 05:11:31 PM »
Does ESPN have a bird recording playing in the background or is their microphone in a nest?

Matthew Rose

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Re: Who loves Congressional? Actually, who even likes it?
« Reply #47 on: June 17, 2011, 06:57:11 PM »
I'd certainly play it if I had the chance. I just don't like the Rees bunkering.
American-Australian. Trackman Course Guy. Fatalistic sports fan. Drummer. Bass player. Father. Cat lover.

mike_beene

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Re: Who loves Congressional? Actually, who even likes it?
« Reply #48 on: June 18, 2011, 12:37:39 AM »
I walked it Thursday and thought it was pretty wide.It is refreshing to see some drivers being used.The crowd flow works pretty well because the first tee is a long way from the clubhouse.There are some long green to tee walks,especially 10 to 11 and uphill from 11 to 12 plus you finish a long way from the clubhouse.Ten provides a really nice stadium.The greens look much flatter and were running slower than I expected.Also much hillier than I expected.This is a good Open course because it has enough room and natural viewing points to accommodate the forty thousand.The set up is superb .I would be happy to see it in a ten course Open rotation.

Jonathan Cummings

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Re: Who loves Congressional? Actually, who even likes it?
« Reply #49 on: June 18, 2011, 05:58:49 AM »
I walked it Thursday and thought it was pretty wide.It is refreshing to see some drivers being used.The crowd flow works pretty well because the first tee is a long way from the clubhouse.There are some long green to tee walks,especially 10 to 11 and uphill from 11 to 12 plus you finish a long way from the clubhouse.Ten provides a really nice stadium.The greens look much flatter and were running slower than I expected.Also much hillier than I expected.This is a good Open course because it has enough room and natural viewing points to accommodate the forty thousand.The set up is superb .I would be happy to see it in a ten course Open rotation.

Mike - you sure you were at the right golf course?  Congo's first tee is a 15 sec walk from Jimmy L's pro shop desk.  While the front nine ain't too bad for spectators the back is as f'ed up as they get.  Try walking from the church green to the clubhouse - it'll take you damn near an hour with all the rope gates you have to go through.  It may be the worst venue of all (and I've seen and played most of them) for viewing - take away the stands and the amplitheatre around 10/18 is about the only open area that promotes viewing.    While you may want to see Congo in a 10-year rotation I'm not sure many members agree with you - their tolerance of pain is closer to 20 years which doesn't bode well for the future of Tiger's annual romp at Congo.

JC
« Last Edit: June 18, 2011, 06:26:28 AM by Jonathan Cummings »

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