Moor Allerton NLE

[Mark_Rowlinson]

I'm separating this out from Ally's thread on MacKenzie courses in Yorkshire. Moor Allerton opened in 1923 adjacent to Moortown. It was a predominantly Jewish club. But it sold up in the late 60s, moving to a Robert Trent Jones 27-hole complex out of town. Does anyone have pictures of the MacKenzie course and can anyone pinpoint exactly where it was located relative to Moortown?

[Mark_Rowlinson]

The club's website informs us that they recently planted 20,000 trees.....

http://www.magc.co.uk/pages/about/history.htm

[Niall C]

.....not only that but they have employed Peter Alliss to make modifications 

Niall

[Tom_Doak]

Mark:

I have seen aerials of the old course, when I was doing a consulting visit to Moortown years ago.  When it was built, Moortown had courses on either side of it ... Moor Allerton on one side, and Sand Moor on the other ... but both eventually moved.  The result was that Moortown's holes up against the fence, where you used to hook into another golf course, were now lined with houses and no longer safe, so they had to change several holes.  I can't remember now whether Moor Allerton was on the side with the 16th and 17th holes, or on the side with the old 9th & 10th.

[Neil_Crafter]

Tom
This is an oblique aerial showing the clubhouse and starting/finishing holes at Moortown in 1937, with the Sand Moor clubhouse and holes off to the left, immediately adjacent. Doesn't show any Moor Allerton holes. Here's one just of the Sand Moor clubhouse. There is a nice one in the Moortown history book that shows more holes of both Moortown and Sand Moor but I only have a poor photocopy which will not reproduce well.





Mark
I only have one photo of the old Moor Allerton course and its a fairly underwhelming shot of the side of a green from 1951. Think the original Mac course is a bit of a mystery really. In the article Mac wrote called "The Growth of Golf in Leeds" he stated that owing to delays in obtaining all the land, only 12 holes had been completed and in play by mid 1923.  That's about all we know. Not sure what there is in their history book though as I don't have it. Perhaps Nick Leefe can dig one up.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

1938 map found:



Moor Allerton appears to the west and south of Moortown. There's a fragment of Sand Moor to the east of Moortown.

[Robin_Hiseman]

So it seems that a fair chunk of the old Moor Allerton is undeveloped and is now known as Alwoodley Wood.  Do you suppose there are some remnants of the course lurking beneath the canopy?

Also, you don't suppose the pub now called Leeds Seventeen is the old Moor Allerton clubhouse.  It's in exactly the same location and looks of that genre of building?

[Ally Mcintosh]

Well found Mark... Can you spy the clubhouse in that map?... I can see the Moortown and Sand Moor ones marked but not the Moor Allerton starting point?...

You could be right Robin... The photos of Alwoodley Wood on Google Earth don't give a hint but if you were so inclined to spend a few hours in the undergrowth, you might unearth something... After you, Sir...

[Robin_Hiseman]

Ally.

Church Crookham to Alwoodley return = 452 miles.  Not THAT interested!  Maybe our Northern branch will do the scouting honours.

[Ally Mcintosh]

Ally.

Church Crookham to Alwoodley return = 452 miles.  Not THAT interested!  Maybe our Northern branch will do the scouting honours.

I thought not Robin... Where's the PASSION?!

Anyway, with the direction the real estate market is currently going, you might find these people selling their classic _________ designed housing estate to move out to the country somewhere... and we could get the golf course back...

"It was just too good an opportunity to refuse. 'Restoration Golf Development' just offered us such a lucrative deal saying that they'd give us a cash settlement and build a new *insert modern signature house architect* designed estate with 50% more floor-space only 3 miles from where we live... It will have USGA recommended kitchen tiles and all mod-cons including a fountain" said one local resident I recently talked to...

[Adam Lawrence]

That is really fascinating. I've played the new Moor Allerton course, years and years ago, but had no idea the old one might still be out there, at least in part. Next time I'm in Yorkshire I'll try to go and take a look.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

The Moor Allerton Club house is marked at the bottom of the map just above Fir Tree Farm and sports grounds.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Here's an aerial:



Pity we can't scroll back to 1945 on this one.

[Ally Mcintosh]

The Moor Allerton Club house is marked at the bottom of the map just above Fir Tree Farm and sports grounds.

In other words right beside the original Mootown clubhouse that was abandoned by this point... In fact, it seems logical that it got abandoned / flattened in 1923 when Moor Allerton was built...

[Robin_Hiseman]

Here is a close up of the building located exactly where the NLE Moor Allerton Clubhouse was.  Notice the orientation of the main wing.



And here is the Street View.  Sure looks like it could have been the clubhouse to me.

[James Boon]

So it seems that a fair chunk of the old Moor Allerton is undeveloped and is now known as Alwoodley Wood.  Do you suppose there are some remnants of the course lurking beneath the canopy?

Also, you don't suppose the pub now called Leeds Seventeen is the old Moor Allerton clubhouse.  It's in exactly the same location and looks of that genre of building?

Robin,

Perhaps we should send Andrew Mitchell in to the woods...  

Looking at the Birds Eye on Bings maps, the larger windows in the pub/restaurant building you mention all face away from the road, out to where the golf course would have been. So I think you are probably right and it certainly looks to have the feel of a clubhouse of that era:

http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=sz7w0dgw4576&lvl=19.172546558964054&dir=173.25229263010917&sty=b&eo=0&where1=Leeds%2C%20Leeds&q=leeds&form=LMLTCC

Cheers,

James

[Robin_Hiseman]

No doubt in my mind James.

[Neil_Crafter]

From Ordnance survey maps

Clubhouse of Moor Allerton in 1954 and 1969. There is little doubt that the building shown in the 1969 map is the same building that is there today. The question that springs to mind is that the building shown in 1954 appears entirely different.

1954


1969

[James Boon]

Neil,

Indeed, the 54 clubhouse is certainly a totally different building. The position of the buldings across the road in the 2 map extracts confirms it. Surprising that some time between 54 and 69 they build a new clubhouse, only to move to a totally new site in 1971?

Cheers,

James

[Robin_Hiseman]

Neil,

Indeed, the 54 clubhouse is certainly a totally different building. The position of the buldings across the road in the 2 map extracts confirms it. Surprising that some time between 54 and 69 they build a new clubhouse, only to move to a totally new site in 1971?

Unless they had no thought of moving at the time the clubhouse was redeveloped.

[James Boon]

Robin,

Sure, that goes without saying. What I should have said is that it seems a pretty small window of time. Most course histories I know of, when something like a new clubhouse or a move to a new course take place, they are usually an idea that has been around for a while.

Anyway, we've nailed the clubhouse, now what about that NLE MacKenzie course... 

Cheers,

James

[Duncan Cheslett]

Fascinating stuff;

The pro at my club, Reddish Vale, is a bit of a golf history nut and also used to be assistant pro at Moor Allerton. If anyone knows anything about the original MacKenzie course, he will. I'll speak to him in the morning...


This Google Earth photo of Alwoodley Wood looks a bit golf coursey to me.

http://www.panoramio.com/photo/20167803?source=wapi&referrer=kh.google.com

[Neil_Crafter]

Indeed we have nailed the clubhouse James :-)
We just know next to nothing about the course as you say.

In Mackenzie's article from October 1923 on "The Growth of Golf in Leeds" he mentions Moor Allerton only briefly, just to say that only 12 holes were open and that the club had over 300 members. Nothing about the course itself and no photograph.

The club history book appears so rare that I could find no copies on Abebooks or eBay :-(

I'd be surprised if there weren't some golfing features left over from the Moor Allerton course in the Alwoodley Wood. We need a volunteer to do some golf archaeology :-)

I also found the 1938 Ordnance Survey map that Mark reproduced an extract from. The amazing thing is that there are 4 Mackenzie courses sitting cheek by jowl within the same map.

[Marty Bonnar]

Thanks Neil and all,
THAT is one of the most intriguing/exciting things I've ever seen on GCA.
four, Four, FOUR freekin pretty MacKs all in a row.
Yum.
FBD.

[Neil_Crafter]

FBD
yes, hard to comprehend but when you see them all on the same map it is an incredible thing.
yum indeed.