[Greg Tallman]

1,3,7,8,9... not so fond of the rest. Looks like some real clunkers in the mix here.

[Matt Kardash]

Seeing pics of the Irish course makes me wish they would return the fairway width beack to its original size on the Straits course. originally those fairways were wide like on the Irish course, but since the 2004 PGA they have become practically half the size. The worst offender is the 6th hole, which went from having a centerline pot bunker to a pot bunker in the left rough!

[Joe Bausch]

What the heck let's present the start of the back nine at the Irish course this afternoon.  I think these three holes are a nice set.

#10.  Uphill par 4.



Green tee view:



Approach shot view to a very deep green with a back pin this day:



From 75 yards out:



Fun pin on this day:



Looking back from just right of the green:



#11.  Par 3.



Green tee view:



From just short of the green:



From just over the green:



#12.  Par 4.



Green tee view:



Uphill approach shot view:



From just short of the green (and another tough pin position):



Looking back from the next hole tee box:

[Joe Bausch]

Next up is the 13th, a head-scratcher for me of a par 3 called "blind man's bluff".

#13.  Par 3.



From the green tee this day the green is totally hidden:



If you walk to the edge of the above tee box, toward the silo, you can then get a partial view of the green to the left, and for this day see the top of the extra long flag to the right:



You can wind you way down a trail to near the front of the green for this view:



One half of the green from the back edge:



The other half:



#14.  Par 5.



From the green tee the drive is relatively stress free:



Most people will lay up with their second shot, just short of this diagonal hazard:



Approach shot view (which also hints at a pot bunker just left of the green that those trying to reach in two must navigate):



From just left of the green:



From right of the green:



Looking down on the green from the 12th tee box:



The No 1 stroke hole at Whistling Irish is this long par 4 15th.

#15.  Par 4.



Green tee view:



Approach shot view:



Two views from over the green:





I'll finish up the back-nine tomorrow morning.

[Greg Tallman]

From the tee 15 looks rather similar to the 10th at Pete Dye Golf Club... minus the stream coming under the green that is.

[Joe Bausch]

From the tee 15 looks rather similar to the 10th at Pete Dye Golf Club... minus the stream coming under the green that is.

Pretty good call GT!

[Matt Kardash]

It takes A LOT of guts to build a blind par 3. I never never played the hole, but I give Dye full marks for being bold and unafraid of receiving hate mail 

I bet i'd get a kick of playing that hole.

[Andy Troeger]

There really are quite a few good holes on the Irish Course. I perhaps haven't given it enough credit in the past--its got more high moments through the first 15 holes than I remembered. The last three don't do it for me, but I'll save that for once they are posted!

[Ted Cahill]

It takes A LOT of guts to build a blind par 3. I never never played the hole, but I give Dye full marks for being bold and unafraid of receiving hate mail 

I bet i'd get a kick of playing that hole.

The green is huge!!  I always feel ridiculous when I hike down to the green site and see that I have missed the green.  Goes to show the interesting dilema created by the blind shot- your nervous on the tee and your result will reflect it- when the reality was the green was a huge target.  There is an additional lower tee box that does give a peek a boo view of the green and feels like an entirely different hole. 

[Matt Kardash]

Yeah, never having played it, and hearing all the awful reviews it has gotten on this board I was honestly waiting to see a trainwreck of a course. But honestly, (and I am basing this solely on these pics) it really doesn't look like a bad course. It appears there are a lot of good holes there, and no holes that seems downright terrible. I'm guessing the manifacured look and excess bunkering turn many people off and make them unable to see beyond it.

So far, I'm diggin the par 3's the most.

[Joe Bausch]

Time to wrap up the Irish course at Whistling Straits today.

#16.  An uphill dogleg-right par 4.



Green tee view:



Approach shot view:



From short of the green:



Ya' think this pot bunker gets any play?!



From left of the green:



From the next tee over the green:



#17.  Dogleg-left par 4.



Green tee view:



Approach shot view:



From short of the green:



From over the green:



The Irish course finishes with a par 5.

#18.  Slight dogleg-right par 5.



Green tee view:



Second shot view:



This mounding and bunkering obscures the landing area for the second shot:



My approach shot view was not ideal with the back left pin:



From the front of the green:



From long and right of the green showing big collection area:



From the back of the green:



That's it for the sister layout to the Straits course at Whistling Straits.  Tomorrow I'll begin the photo tour of the big fella'.   

[Phil McDade]

A good friend of mine -- not quite a single-digit handicapper, but solid ball striker -- argues the Irish Course is harder than Whistling Straits.

[Joe Bausch]

A good friend of mine -- not quite a single-digit handicapper, but solid ball striker -- argues the Irish Course is harder than Whistling Straits.

According to the ratings, they are both difficult but the Straits course a bit more so:

Straits:

Black tees:  76.7/151
Blue tees:   74.2/144

Irish:

Black tees:  75.6/146
Blue tees:   73.5/141

[Matt Kardash]

A good friend of mine -- not quite a single-digit handicapper, but solid ball striker -- argues the Irish Course is harder than Whistling Straits.

The Irish can't be harder, if only because the Straits has had their fairways cut almost in half since the 2004 PGA. However, if the Straits had all it's width again then I could see the Irish maybe being more difficult. From what I can see, the bunkering, and maybe even green contours seem more severe on the Irish.

16 thru 18 seems like the worst stretch of holes on the Irish. The tee shot on 16 looks silly, 17 belongs in florida, and 18, well I am not sure yet. It could be interesting, or maybe not, I can't tell from the photos.

[PCCraig]

A good friend of mine -- not quite a single-digit handicapper, but solid ball striker -- argues the Irish Course is harder than Whistling Straits.

Phil:

If you talk to the caddies up there, they'll tell you the same thing.

I think the Irish might be "harder" because the course is a little less "right in front of you" like WS can be on most holes. The Irish has a few "where am I supposed to hit it?" moments which I'm sure leads to a couple bigger numbers for the first time player.

[Joe Bausch]

After just one visit, I"m fine with both 16 and 18 on Irish.  But the 17th sort of reminded me of playing the 2nd hole again, just with the green sited up against the pond.

[Matt Kardash]

Joe,
What did you think of the course? I'd be curious to know.

[Phil McDade]

A good friend of mine -- not quite a single-digit handicapper, but solid ball striker -- argues the Irish Course is harder than Whistling Straits.

The Irish can't be harder, if only because the Straits has had their fairways cut almost in half since the 2004 PGA. However, if the Straits had all it's width again then I could see the Irish maybe being more difficult. From what I can see, the bunkering, and maybe even green contours seem more severe on the Irish.

Matt:

Come to think of it, he did make this observation before the 2004 PGA.

[Joe Bausch]

Joe,
What did you think of the course? I'd be curious to know.

Matt, I might have been dyed-out a bit after 6 courses in 5 days, the last four by Pete, but I did enjoy the Irish course.  The greens are what kept me interested.  It would, however, probably come out #4 of the four Kohler courses.

(I forgot to add to the end of the photo post yesterday)

If you wish to view all 100+ photos (in a much wider format!) in a photo album of the Irish course, go here:

http://xchem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/albums/whistlingirish/

[Joe Bausch]

Ok, time to start the photo tour of the Straits course! 

If you haven't read Ran's 2003 review of WS, you might want to before reading on and viewing this photo tour.  His review is here:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/courses-by-country/usa/whistling-straits-wi-usa/

My group teed off mid-morning in late May and the day started off calm and lighting conditions for most of the front nine was very good (except the opening hole which is running pretty much east into the just risen sun; but then around the 9th hole a marine layer comes in and leads to some very interesting pictures for many holes).

It is difficult to put a simple figure from Google Earth to show the routing at WS.  The course runs along the western shore of Lake Michigan.  I've cobbled together a diagram that I think nicely displays the routing (and if you've been following along for the last few months, I've settled on particular colors for the routings, where yellow is a par 3, blue a par 4, and green a par 5).



#1.  Par 4.



Here's a view from the tips about an hour or so before I teed off:



Green tee view of this slight-dogleg left where rightish in the fw is best:



My tee shot went left but I got back to get this decent approach shot view from the less ideal left edge of the fw:



From just short of the green:



From a slight rise over the green:



#2.  Par 5.



View from the tips, where I actually find this site line more appealing than the green tee view:



Green tee view:



Second shot view:



There is actually rough left on this hole (you'll see why this hole can't run along the water soon enough):



From just short of the green, where a pot bunker to the right in the pic must be avoided:



No fun this bunker:



Bailout area right of the green:



From over the green:



The reason why the 2nd doesn't run right along the coast is that the par 3 seventh hole is situated there!  Here is a view that shows the 2nd pin and the 7th green in the distance to the right:



#3.  Par 3.



Wider view from the green tees:



More zoomed tee box view:



From just short of the green, which sort of shows a foggy mist on top of the green as the cool morning breeze was coming off the lake and condensing water evaporating from the green on this sunny day:



The view of the large 3rd green from a rise over the green:



It was not very windy this morning, so from the green tees the first three holes were challenging, but not too difficult.  The fourth hole is tough and that will start off our next three holes tomorrow!

[Matt Kardash]

Am I the only one who thinks the Straits course practically looks like a minimalist natural-looking design after seeing the tour of the Irish course?
The Straits is not be the type of design that is in vogue on this site but it really is a great golf course.

Comments on first 3 holes: That bunker short of two might be the smallest, nastiest bunker ever. And the par 3 3rd is a beautiful redan-like par 3. All 4 of the par 3's are standouts. I think the 17th is one of the great par 3's in golf.

[Phil McDade]

Yet another disturbing GCA Discussion Board trend -- Matt Kardash and I agreeing more often!

I've always thought WStraits a very good course for what it set out to do -- provide a top-tier test on the shores of a big lake that mimics the look and feel of an Irish links. There are a bunch of good holes out there.

[Jim Colton]

I like the stair step approach that leads one to believe that the 2nd hole is playing right on the water when in fact there's another hole in between. Even if it's totally manufactured, at least they maximized the 'ocean' frontage and then some.

[Matt Kardash]

Yet another disturbing GCA Discussion Board trend -- Matt Kardash and I agreeing more often!

 

[Andy Troeger]

I was not a fan of the finish to the Irish Course--admittedly that dropped the course quite a bit in my estimation. The 16th is really hard--that hill on the right had some long grass on it when I was there--I hit a shot that barely missed the fairway and we couldn't find it. If that's lower most of the time then it would be a bit more reasonable. The 17th is a relatively typical big pond par four--seems a bit out of place compared the the 10-12 holes preceeding it, but ok. The 18th I didn't like at all, because if you don't hit a good drive, the layup is really odd. You really can't tell where you're supposed to hit it and the target is too small. Its perhaps even worse than the 18th at the Straits, which is my biggest objection to that course as well. The tweaks there have helped over time though, at least from TV.

Phil,
I think you're just becoming more agreeable, even I agree with you on the Straits!     

My impression when I played them was that the Irish was just as difficult as the Straits, but probably not more so. That was in 2005--the fairways were relatively narrow, but there was enough room to play.

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