[Sean_A]

On another thread somebody wrote that one of his tests for golf courses is "would he still enjoy playing the course if it were 1000 yards shorter?".  Of course, I don't know for sure if that is 1000 yards shorter from the tips or wherever, but we get the idea.  I find it intriguing.  What do you lot think? 

Ciao

[PCCraig]

On another thread somebody wrote that one of his tests for golf courses is "would he still enjoy playing the course if it were 1000 yards shorter?".  Of course, I don't know for sure if that is 1000 yards shorter from the tips or wherever, but we get the idea.  I find it intriguing.  What do you lot think? 

Ciao

I think I agree with the first poster. IMO, greens and greensites make the course. But like anything it could get old hitting wedge approaches over and over...or maybe not.

[Adrian_Stiff]

It is an intersting question Sean- I suspect it relates to many golf courses off the ladies tees. Directly it relates to 55 yards per hole.

[Kalen Braley]

I also like to consider fairway placement of swales, bunkers, undulations, and otherwise for the 1000 yards shorter criteria.

It could make the par 5s all very fun with being tempted to get home in two on all of them.

[Jason Topp]

This is my "wrong tees" test.  I think an outstanding course is enjoyable if you play it from tees either too short or too long than what would be conventional.

[Tom_Doak]

Jason:

I agree with that.  I think that the course should work for almost any player from any tee [although I will make some exceptions for short-hitting women playing from all the way back].

The thing about playing from the "wrong" tees is, it doesn't necessarily mean a bunch of wedge approaches.  The par-5's may now become reachable in two, and there may be a couple of par-4's you can try to drive -- if you dare.

[Sean_A]

Tom

I was thinking along your lines if the tips are 6500ish.  Some of those shortish par 4s could also become par 3s.  I also thought about massivley different angles from tees.  At Burnham we have blue tees which are somehere near ladies length and some of the angles from the tees change the holes dramatically. 

However, I am not sold 1000 yards back from the optimum tees.  You and Jason seem to be saying if the course is playable its good.  For me, the course has to be fun to pass that 1000 forward 1000 back test.  I don't think I would enjoy stepping back to 7200, 7400 or evem 7600 yards even if it is playable. 

Ciao

[John_Conley]

Sean, the courses on the Robert Trent Jones Trail in Alabama must be unbelievable then!

[Jason Topp]

However, I am not sold 1000 yards back from the optimum tees.  You and Jason seem to be saying if the course is playable its good.  For me, the course has to be fun to pass that 1000 forward 1000 back test.  I don't think I would enjoy stepping back to 7200, 7400 or evem 7600 yards even if it is playable. 

Ciao

Sean - 1000 yards back might be a bit much, but I do sometimes play with friends that like to play from close to that length.  Even though I have no business playing from there and it would not be my first choice, I do appreciate a design that allows me to do so, get around the course and have a legitimate chance, at least with handicap strokes. 

The 1000 yards shorter test might be the more important one.  The key issue is whether the shorter distance takes driver out of ones hand on the tee.  An ideal course will not do so very often and will provide a whole new set of opportunities to be agressive from a forward tee. 

A freind of mine's club holds a black and gold event with the first round from the back (black) tees and the pins set in the most difficult locations.  The second round is from the front (gold) tees with the pins set in very easy positions.  Apparently the total scores for 36 holes wind up approximating what people would shoot from the middle tees.  I have always wanted to set up such an event at my club but have never put in the effort to sell the idea.

[Mac Plumart]

Hmmm...

Sounds interesting.  I think I'll give it a try.

[Scott Warren]

I've been thinking the past few weeks that next time I go to Barnbougle Dunes Im playing it first from the back tees, then from the middle tees, then from the forward tees.

I have a feeling the play on holes like 3, 4, 5, 8, 11, 12, 15 and 18 will change immensely through the day.

It's not 1000 yards I don't reckon, but many of those holes had a fair difference from back tees to front tees.

Or perhaps I'll go middle, back, forward so it's not just a gradual shortening of each hole.

[Carl Rogers]

I have played in events that require 6 tee shots from the tips, 6 tee shots from the forward tees and 6 tee shots from the middle tees.  The player chooses which holes.  I usually wind up with the back tees on the short holes and the forward tees on the long holes.

[Bill Brightly]

This is a great topic. I belong to Saucon Valley and whenever I bring a guest who is an 8 handicap or higher to play the Old Course (or Weyhill, for that matter), I play the whites rather than the black or blue tees.  I have a great time and never feel like I am cheating or missing out on something. I think that is because the green complexes are so good. Sure, it allows me to be far closer to the greens for my approaches, but now I have the option of aggressively attacking certain pins that from the backs tees I am just trying to get it on the green some place. Since I rarely play these tees, it is like playing a totally different course, and it makes me appreciate how good it is.

On a related note, I brought out a scratch player who was a great driver of the ball and we played from the blues. I never felt so much pressure when he asked me "how far to carry that bunker" or "what line do I take play this dogleg" because he generally hit it right where I told him! I gave him a 10 yard "cushion" on a dogleg par 5 (Hole 15 for those who know the course) so he would not end up in the bunker that guared the inside aggessive line, he hit it EXACTLY where I told him and ended up 1 yard in the rough on the outside of the dogleg, and when he got to the ball politely pointed out to me that his line should have been 5 yards more inside...(blush.) But that experience showed me how really good the driving lines were at the course.

[Tim Martin]

I have played in events that require 6 tee shots from the tips, 6 tee shots from the forward tees and 6 tee shots from the middle tees.  The player chooses which holes.  I usually wind up with the back tees on the short holes and the forward tees on the long holes.

Carl-I am playing in a club tournament on Sunday with this format called a "Red,White and Blue". Lots of fun and interesting to see what picks are made by different players.

[Matt Kardash]

A course can't be all things to all players. I don't think if you enjoy playing a course setup 1000 yards shorter it is some sort of guarantee of greatness . That is some pretty arbitrary critera.

[Ken Moum]

I can't say I've moved up 1,000 yards, but the golds at my home course are pretty close to 800 yards shorter than the whites.  I have played them a number of times, and enjoy the hell out of it.

There are several reasons i don't play them more.  First is that their current location has never been rated, being 400 yards shorter than the card.  In addition, I found that I play WAY better from them, so even if I adjusted for the shorter yardage, I was dropping my handicap too low to be competitive in my men's league.

Anyway, I can just handle the tees @ 6,332 but find a 5450 tees a lot of fun as well.  I assure you, however, that there's not much enjoyment for me back at 7,400.

This week I was at Karsten Creek for the NCAA Div. 1 Men's Championship, and they have tees at 5,000, 6,000, 6,600 and 7,400. Only a gun would get me on the back tees.

K

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