A Design Oddity - What Was The Architect Thinking?

[Bryan Izatt]

Below is an aerial from a local country club that was built in the 1950's.  It has two 18 hole courses and also a short course.  The clubhouse sits at the southeast corner of the property and the two 18 hole courses are routed down and through a river valley and up onto hills to the north.

The property is constricted around the clubhouse.  There is just room to accommodate the two first holes, the tees of which are within a few yards of the clubhouse and run north, while the two returning 18th holes are sandwiched in between the two first holes.  The 9th holes are 300 and 500 yards away from the clubhouse.

What is odd to me is that the 18th holes of the East and West courses are more or less exact copies of each other.  Both are short par 5's with yardages that are within 20 yards of each other.  The tees are side by side separated by a row of pines. They both play from a ridge, down across a valley up to a ridge with bunker right and bunker left constricting the LZ.  They both then turn right in parallel and play down through another valley, across a small brook and then up to a green benched into the side of a fairly large hill.  

What could the architect have been thinking to have designed doppelganger holes to close two course on the same property?





An image looking down from behind the green of the West Course, althogh from this angle it's hard to tell whether it's the East or West Course.

[Ronald Montesano]

A) The founders demanded that each hole return to the clubhouse in dramatic fashion;

B) The architect found something he liked and stuck with it;

C) The architect was lazy;

D) There was no other way to use the natural features of the land without wasting space in the middle of the two holes (we don't know what is on either side from your clipped photo);

E) The architect avoided ancient burial mounds;

Without seeing the entire course of TCC, as your photo's id betrays, it's hard for me to make additional assessments.

[Adrian_Stiff]

He may have designed the second course at a different time and he may not be directly responsible for the mirrorred bunkering that might be an after-thought. I have played quite a lot of courses where 9 & 18 are quite similar. If they are good holes and they do look it from the photos and aerial I am not sure he has committed much of a crime, especially when they are on different courses.

[Tom_Doak]

It's pretty standard for two side-by-side holes to be approximately the same length ... if that length fits the topography for one, it probably fits the topography for the other, and the two 17th greens probably occupy a common feature [plateau, hilltop] also.

As for doing the bunkering about the same, maybe the club liked the one hole and asked him for something similar.  Or maybe it was just the architect's idea ... he probably didn't even think about whether the holes were similar, he was only worried about achieving variety within the new 18 holes he was building.


If Seth Raynor had built two Punchbowl holes or Road holes side by side, everyone would think he was a genius. 

[Ronald Montesano]

If Seth Raynor had built two Punchbowl holes or Road holes side by side, everyone would think he was a genius" ...

and then copy it...

and then claim that someone else had a hand in it ...

and then we'd argue about it ...

and then Trump would build a waterfall between them, with mermaids ...

[Scott Warren]

Bryan,

I've got a couple of more for you along the same lines. But rather than being on adjoining courses they're on the same courses, one example with only two holes separating them in the order of play!

Firstly, The European Club. 9th and 18th. Two long par fours that play over the same land, flat to the DZ and then drops down to the green. Walk onto the wrong tee and you wouldn't know until you got to the green.



Now the 1st and 4th holes at my home course, Bonnie Doon. Two short par fives that are now thankfully being torn up by Mike Clayton's gang and one of them will now be played in the opposite direction. Like the Euro Club holes they play to very similar legnths over almost identical pieces of land with copycat bunkering schemes.

[Mike_Clayton]

Scott,

It was amazing how similar those two holes were - but they looked a lot different when I saw them yesterday.
It will be interesting to see how the reversed 4th turns out - I think it could be a really good hole.

[Scott Warren]

Mike,

Standing on what will now be the 9th tee with you guys the other day, looking at the drive - it should be one hell of a hole, especially if that bunker in the ridge ends up being as big as intended. Can't wait for March.

[Scott Weersing]

While the holes themselves are not original or memorable, they are on different courses so the members may not feel that they are playing the same hole again.

I really dislike courses with parallel holes that are designed the same way. I know of a course where each of the holes are parallel to each other. So imagine a course where 1 and 10, then 2 and 11, and 3 and 12, and so on. The holes in the middle are somewhat different but then 8 and 17 and 9 and 18 are all par 4s that run parallel. Routing makes a course memorable or forgettable. If all the holes blend together, then you have a forgettable course. It may be fun to play but it is not memorable.

[Ronald Montesano]

These are side-by-each par fives at South Shore in Hamburg, NY, just south of Buffalo. Styles/Van Kleek from back in the day. I wonder what might have been there that is no longer there. 17 is on top of 9, if it matters.

[jeffwarne]

What could the architect have been thinking to have designed doppelganger holes to close two course on the same property?





An image looking down from behind the green of the West Course, althogh from this angle it's hard to tell whether it's the East or West Course.

Clearly the lack of a GCA.com in the 1950's contributed to this horror.......

Similar finishing holes (FROM THE AIR on two different courses) isn't exactly a crime.
perhaps they were his "templates"
Is he dead enough yet to glorify them?

[Kalen Braley]

Spring Valley in Milpitas, CA has something similar to this with thier 9th and 18th.

Both tee shots over water, over the same pond
Tees are side by side.
Both dead straight
Both almost same distance

But to mix it up, one has greenside bunkering and the other one is bunkerless!! 

[Bill_McBride]

The 9th and 18th holes at my old club in Northern Virginia, the Country Club of Fairfax, are parallel and side by side and both dogleg left and play down and then up to greens benched into a hillside below the clubhouse.

In this case it works very well, because #9 is a 500 yard par 5 and #18 is a 450 yard par 4.  A pair of 4's on the card is a really pleasing outcome.

[Garland Bayley]

Palouse Ridge has copy cat par 5s next to each other for 9 and 18.

[Jeff_Brauer]

It could be that they thought the members/players would develop a preference for one 18 over another if only one had a reachable par 5 and they thought it would keep play on two courses more even.  Or, the gca just liked to finish with a birdie hole (or GM - sell more beer in the CH that way)

For that matter, they may have been thinking about some huge club tourney using both courses and thought that having similar finishes would aid them in using both courses.  The PGA Tour has at times recommended similar hole sequences to start and finish, so when they double start players, they face similar conditions at the same times in the round.

Lastly, what about mirroring in general is about being a bad concept?  If that is true, then most Pete Dye courses, with their mirror image long par 4 holes must be flawed.

[Matthew Rose]

There is a dreadful 36-hole muni complex in the Madison, WI area called Yahara Hills and there are examples of this all over the place. I recall at one point there are two par-threes that play next to each other that are basically clones and share the same tee, then a third par-three from the other course that plays the same length and direction lies nearby. I'll have to find a photo.