[Kyle Henderson]

The green is not large relative to the length of the tee shot, but rather when one has a put from one end to the other.

Dave is not that big of a hitter. Stating that he is will hurt your street cred.

The green is large and vexing, with many obvious mini-moguls and subtle tilts to test even the best of putters.

Interesting viewpoint.  There is at least one occasional poster here who believes the green is too small.

Having to carry these shots onto the green and then get them to stop is a tough ask, especially downwind, although I am sure Mark Ferguson will tell me that it is a fade bunt 3 wood landing on a spot 5 square feet in size on the front left of the green is easy and the architecture has defeated me.

 You have a lot of street cred because you are a big hitter, but obviously your lack of intellectual rigor and tendency to preternatural hyperbolic fallacies is glossed over.

[Bryan Izatt]

Thanks for posting bryan, I think that photo shows just how devilish that pin placement is.  If Alex is still checking in I think he will get a better idea of the challenge that awaits him!

Pffft! What challenge? 

It is nice to see a tough pin surrounded by grass on all sides and not sitting entirely above its surrounds.

Ah, the hubris of youth.   

On the other hand, Alex is long enough and good enough to actually make it stand up.  David, on another hand, wasn't that long a hitter.  I'd agree with David that that pin is pretty inaccessible for most mere mortals.

[Bryan Izatt]

A couple of more pictures of the 4th.  TD turns your direction around 180* again.  In the wind this is going to get in your head.




I'm not so sure the bunkers are so fearsome compared to some other bunkers I could think of.  But, I loved the toadstool landform in the bunker.  Is this an Aussie thing? 

[Tom_Doak]

Bryan:

We left islands of grass in some of the bunkers to try and minimize the amount of sand that would blow out of the bunkers.  Clearly, it hasn't worked very well; what were once 18-inch tall islands are now 4-foot tall toadstools.  That's how much sand has blown away over the past six years.

We hope to work with them at some point to reduce or remove these strange evolved features.  The current management was very surprised to hear they weren't intentional!

[Kyle Henderson]

The 5th (387 meters) represents the ultimate in minimalism, with very little apparent earthworks done to alter the most subtle terrain on property. A central bunker and thick, peripheral native grasses will challenge attempts to follow the shortest line home along the left edge of the fairway. From the substantially elevated tees, most players will be wise in choosing to aim for the center of the fairway’s widest portion short of the central bunker. For the approach, many will find their second shots kicking forward through the green off of a fronting downward slope.

The flagstick can just be made out above the right edge of the far left bunker.

[Ben Stephens]

Bryan:

We left islands of grass in some of the bunkers to try and minimize the amount of sand that would blow out of the bunkers.  Clearly, it hasn't worked very well; what were once 18-inch tall islands are now 4-foot tall toadstools.  That's how much sand has blown away over the past six years.

We hope to work with them at some point to reduce or remove these strange evolved features.  The current management was very surprised to hear they weren't intentional!

Tom,

I had wondered whether it was left as it is or whether it got built up over the years. Another one was how the hell is someone going to play out of there let alone climb it! 



Cheers
Ben

[Ben Stephens]

My take of Hole 5 - Nice and simple hole - love the large 'punchbowl' half surrounded green


Tee shot


Fairway bunker


Greenside front bunker


Green


Rear view

Cheers
Ben

[Alex Miller]

The greensite looks kind of like a reverse Pacific Dunes #2. Like.

[Kalen Braley]

Not sure if it was intended this way, but #5 looks to be a bit of a breather hole after some of the opening fireworks and dramatics presented on the opening holes. 

P.S.  I'm also digging the Matt Ward bunker in the middle of the fairway for the big bombers....probably not as far as it looks and could sneak up on a long baller trying to get too greedy!

[David_Elvins]

After a tough couple of holes, the 5th is awelcome relief.  In my experience it is the most birdied hole on the course (by a long way) and defintely the easiest green to putt on. 

Not much has been said so far about the style of green contouring at St Andrews beach.  The 5th is one of the few greens where you never have a double breaking 15 footer.  It does take players a while to pick up on the fact that the green slopes heavily from right to left and whilst there is a big bailout area to the right of the green, it is the hardest up and down. 

I really like the drive.  Like the second and the 17th the central bunker and flanking bunker provide a pocket to aim for.  The centre bunker is in range for big hitters or down wind with firm fairways.  It is a wedge in from here but normally it is a 6-9iron second shot. 

there is plenty of room to drive out to the right, but here you are hitting into an upslope and the ball doesnt get anywhere near the same run.  From out here, all of a sudden the shot in gets 20+ yards longer. 

There is no real preferred angle to approach the green from and the generous contouring at the front of the green makes alot of pins very accessible.  A big change from the previous two holes.

[Kevin Pallier]

My take on the past few holes -

# 3 = The drive is ho hum but the approach is not. A half par hole for mine.

# 4 = just a P3

# 5 = I like this hole - the setting of it and the punchbowl green is interesting

[Kyle Henderson]

Hole #6 is a par 3 of 169 meters. The green sits in a small bowl (with the bottom of the flag blocked from view…) beyond an imposing bunker complex that blocks the right side of the surface. Left of the bunkers, tightly-mowed grass will rapidly bring short misses back toward the tees. Take an extra half club in calm conditions and hit a fade to the left center.

[Ben Stephens]

Here is my take of Hole 6 - a short par 3 that would fit in with any of the sandbelt courses


Tee shot


Close up of front bunkers - they are steep!


Rear view

Cheers
Ben

[Bryan Izatt]

Another hole, another change in direction.  This hole is certainly daunting from the back tee, 180 yards into the wind and a good 20 - 25 feet uphill depending on the tee.  The white tees are much more manageable at 140 yards.  And the forward tees are a friendly and doable 110 yards.

[Mark_F]

The green is not large relative to the length of the tee shot, but rather when one has a putt from one end to the other.

Huh?

Dave is not that big of a hitter. Stating that he is will hurt your street cred.

Kyle,

Well Dave must have lost a lot of length since he has become deskbound and/or married. Last time we played at St Andrews Beach he had a ping at the 14th green, all 276 metres away from the tee.  And it wasn't lack of distance that resulted in his failure.

However, the very best architecture tempts players to bite off more than they can chew, imo.

That's one way of looking at it David, but the very best architecture is more nuanced than that.  It also gets into the mind of a player when faced with something different or unexpected and challenges them to think of all the possible consequences and options rather than a simplistic Can I?/Should I? carry or flirt with a hazard.

The balance between risk and reward is at the heart of golf course architecture. My opinion would be on this hole, the balance is less than optimal.

It would be interesting to see if the balance changed if the vegetation was done properly. To be wide right in a wonky lie with a shot possibly from or behind a thick tuft of grass over a bunker is a bit much. The bunker shot from the right looks a lot more difficult than it is.

After a tough couple of holes, the 5th is a welcome relief.  In my experience it is the most birdied hole on the course (by a long way) and defintely the easiest green to putt on.  

Looks like we disagree again.    In my experience 1,17,7 and 18 have more birdies, and 1, 4, 7 and 13 are definitely easier to putt on.

The 5th is a relatively easy par, difficult to bogey unless careless, but difficult to birdie because there is a lot more slope and subtle movement to the green than most realise. Unless the pin is back left, it is also difficult to get close to.

There is plenty of room to drive out to the right, but here you are hitting into an upslope and the ball doesnt get anywhere near the same run.  From out here, all of a sudden the shot in gets 20+ yards longer.  

There is no real preferred angle to approach the green from and the generous contouring at the front of the green makes alot of pins very accessible.  

If there is no preferred angle it is because the pins are never changed enough.  You get a better look at a left flag from the left part of the fairway, but that means hitting over the bunker onto the sharpest downslope.  If you go right, you have a longer shot in, but can take away most of the downslope and run the ball down with more control.

The right hand pin is very good, because you need to be left off the tee in order to hit into the slope of the green, but misses long and/or wide right can be a nightmare up and down.

[Matthew Mollica]

Bryan:

We left islands of grass in some of the bunkers to try and minimize the amount of sand that would blow out of the bunkers.  Clearly, it hasn't worked very well; what were once 18-inch tall islands are now 4-foot tall toadstools.  That's how much sand has blown away over the past six years.

We hope to work with them at some point to reduce or remove these strange evolved features.  The current management was very surprised to hear they weren't intentional!

Tom, FYI - this picture was taken in December 2009. Pay no attention to my playing partner in the technicolour Hula girl print pants. Apart from the fact that he's a 42" waist and stands 5 feet 10 inches. That should give you some scale as to the size of the tuft in the bunker less than two years ago. Amazing how the sand / grass island has changed in that space of time, when you compare Brian's picture below - if indeed those in the left and right greenside traps at 4 were of similar size to begin with.

MM

[Matthew Mollica]

In my experience 1,17,7 and 18 have more birdies, and 1, 4, 7 and 13 are definitely easier to putt on.

The 5th is a relatively easy par, difficult to bogey unless careless, but difficult to birdie because there is a lot more slope and subtle movement to the green than most realise. Unless the pin is back left, it is also difficult to get close to.

The right hand pin is very good, because you need to be left off the tee in order to hit into the slope of the green, but misses long and/or wide right can be a nightmare up and down.

Totally agree with all of that Mark.

MM

[Bryan Izatt]

Re the erosion of the sand in the bunkers, a lot of it apparently blows away.  In heavy winds such as I had when I was there, you can really get sandblasted downwind of a bunker.  And, I ended up wearing a lot of dirt/sand from the bunkers on my sweaty legs and arms.  A good shower after a round is a good idea.

[Sven Nilsen]

I don't recall, but do you get a good look at the 5th pin placement from the 3rd tee?

[Kyle Henderson]

The green is not large relative to the length of the tee shot, but rather when one has a putt from one end to the other.

Huh?
[/quote]


The 4th tee shot is relatively long for a par 3, so the green seems relatively small, as do most things a great distance from one's self. But, once you are standing on it, the green is large enough that it will produce many 3 putt efforts.

The reference to Dave being a less-than-long hitter was meant in jest.

[Bruce Hardie]

I don't recall, but do you get a good look at the 5th pin placement from the 3rd tee?

From the very back tee - sorta.

I've joined just in time to discuss my favourite pay for play course on the Australian mainland.

My thoughts on the holes discussed so far:
There is usually a sign on the pathway down and on the first tee that the green is behind the bunkers on the left. Was this absent when you guys played the Boomerang? I guess that vista from the first tee does tend to draw the eye.

Speaking of vistas, the one from the 5th tee is pretty good looking out over a large section of the course.

As for the third, I'm not sure that coming from the back collection zone with your third is a better option than playing short and then coming in with a wedge third. I might give the latter a try next time though as it is an option I had never previously considered - even into the wind.

[Kyle Henderson]

The par 4 7th (377 meters) features a shared fairway with the 8th (coming back on the right). Bunkers serve to separate the holes a bit, but can be carried with a strong drive when winds cooperate.


This day’s pin position is situated on a small, raised shelf at the rear of the green. Few players have the talent to play a running shot that lulls to a stop after climbing to this small section of real estate.

[Bryan Izatt]

The aerial view of 7 and 8 left me wondering whether the construct was an attempt at a 2-for-1 centre line bunker hole.  




Certainly on #7 it appears to be better to keep left rather than try to carry the centre bunker complex.  The green looks more receptive from the left side of the fairway.  Is the centre bunker and the vast fairway beyond an attempt to attract players over there and leave them a more awkward angle to approach a green that runs away a bit to the left?







From the right side of the green showing the large ridge at the back.

[Tom_Doak]

Bryan:

The bunkers between #7 and #8 are an attempt to separate the two fairways, and in particular, to discourage people on #7 tee from slicing into the middle of #8 fairway.  It doesn't stop it from happening, but I think it reduces the incidence.  As you say, there's no pin on #7 from which the right of the fairway is a better angle ... not always true of #8 though.

[Mark_F]

Totally agree with all of that Mark.
MM

Thank heavens for that, Matt.

It was beginning to look like I am picking on David.  

I've joined just in time to discuss my favourite pay for play course on the Australian mainland.

Welcome, Bruce.

I have never particularly liked the 7th hole, and think it is the second weakest there - on a course full of imaginative and original greens, the 7th's putting surface is a rather mundane straight two-tiered affair.

I realise it is a linking hole between 6 and 8, and also a respite of sorts from the rollercoaster theatrics of the first five holes, but it is still a somewhat uninteresting hole to play.

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