St. Andrews Beach - Gunnamatta Course: A Pictorial!!! (All holes posted)

[David_Elvins]

[Tom_Doak]

David:

That's fascinating to me.  I never really thought about the advantage of playing a second shot from the right, if you were going to be playing from well short of the green, but I think you're right.  And to think I laid up to the left when I was there!

[Tim_Weiman]

David,

You make a strong statement regarding the 2nd hole, but I have no hesitation in saying I prefer the hole to the famous 10th at Royal Melbourne or the 4th at Barnbougle.

[Matthew Mollica]

I used to think RMW #10 and BBD #4 were the best Tim. But the options at St Andrews Beach #2 are so much more numerous.
The sensations on the tee at RMW #10 and BBD #4 are of grandeur and challenge, yet I feel David may be right in his assessment.

MM

[Tim_Weiman]

Matthew,

We're on the same page. #2 is a hole I wish I could play every time I go out to play golf.

[Kyle Henderson]

The 2nd is, in my opinion, the world's greatest short par 4.  

The 2nd hole beyond great, but I would still put it behind the 7th AND 12th at Ballyneal, and maybe the 4th at Barnbougle Dunes. Stone Eagle must be the only Renaissance course I've played without at least one sublime short par four, and it still has a couple of good ones.

What is the initiation fee for the Butt Boy club?

[Bryan Izatt]

Some more pictures of the 2nd.

Best short 4 in the world - wow.  Surely our American and Scottish friends should have something to say about that.  It satisfied one of my criteria for a short par 4, and that is that it was actually driveable by a medium length hitter.  Now the breeze was from behind that day, but in those conditions driving it was a realistic option.  And, of course, on a one-off play you have to try that option.  None of that laying up stuff.  The driving area up to the right looks invitingly open from the tee, but I suppose it is easy get into trouble if you don't draw it in, or overcook it, or go too long.

If Sean is looking in, I assume he is going to like the tie-ins from the bunkers to the surrounding native areas.  And bunkers that aren't ringed by rough.

Tee view




Lay up to the left.




In David's layup pocket to the right.  View of green is not so great from over there either.




Side view of the green from the right with proof positive that the green can be driven.  Of course three putts is always an option from there.  

[David_Elvins]

David,

You make a strong statement regarding the 2nd hole, but I have no hesitation in saying I prefer the hole to the famous 10th at Royal Melbourne or the 4th at Barnbougle.

Tim,

Good to see you posting.  To be honest, I am not qualified to make such a statement but I do think that Australia does drivable par 4s better than the rest, and this is the pick of the bunch.

It is not perfect, however. There is a problem with a bit too much vegetation in places.  The shrub in fron of the green in Bryan's photo has grown even larger and so has the one that blocks the view of the right fairway bunker. 

Also, balls do run a bit to much right to left (and backwards) on the fairway when the course is at its firmest.  Dufferent grass may improve this aspect. 

Tom,

That is really interesting that the hole was not designed to be played easily from the right.  The 'pocket' of ground in between the entreline hazard and the right hand fairway bunker is a really good sized target to aim at.  A good challenge to get the ball to stop in there.  And I think the reward is considerable.  You cannot pitch the ball on the sharp slope to the right of the green but from the right angle it is easy to land short and let it feed down the slope. 

The view from the left side of the fairway is very disconcerting.  It is very hard to visualise where the front of the green is (the bunker in front of the green is 5-10 yards short), know exactly where the right greenside bunker is (the front of the green is deceptively narrow), or knwo where on the green the pin is. 

I would say on average, 1 player per group would end up through the green - in the bunker or worse.  When you consider how little wear a lot of bunkers behind greens get, it is quite remarkable. 

[Ben Stephens]

Guys,

Jumping on the SAB bandwagon albeit a hole late here are my pics of holes 1 and 2

Cheers
Ben


A tribute to Tucky - can't believe he missed this sign!

Hole 1











Hole 2









I thought the opening 2 holes were very good there are width off the tee as well as birdie opportunities rather than be hit by a hard par.
Hole 2 I could not believe how wide the fairway was and there were so many strategic options off the tee. The bank on the right hand side is crucial for an optional second shot that can be hit right of the green and using the bank to get on the green.

Kyle - this should be a fascinating thread with different set of pictures!

[Mike_Clayton]

There is also a fantastic long par four from the 7th tee to the 2nd green.
The 2nd is a long iron across the bunkers - or you can drive far right and try and hit a hooking iron around the slope on the right.
Longer and it would be a brilliant par five.

[Tom_Doak]

Mike:

Do you mean from the 8th tee to the 2nd green?

Never thought of that hole; I was trying to get as many holes into that valley (2,7,8,9,10) as possible.

[Mike_Clayton]

Tom,

Of course - I always get those numbers wrong
We play it late at night when there is no one around - it saves going out to the back holes when it is getting dark.
1,2,7 8 tee to 2,3 and 18 is a good little loop.

[Kalen Braley]

Thanks guys....great analysis.

That second hole does look neat based on the additional pictures provided!

[Kevin Pallier]

I certainly rate #2 as one of the better modern short P4's I've seen. The best hole at SAB for mine.

[Kyle Henderson]

The tee shot at #3 (405 meters) is played straight away along the edge of the property’s flattest portion. Up ahead, the fairway bends gently right around the ridgeline, but only the longest and straightest of hitters should think about trying to cut the corner.


The approach is then played to a putting surface situated in slightly elevated bowl such that the bottom of the flagstick is obscured.

[George Pazin]

Thanks for sharing. Kyle, it looks like there was some sort of mini-apocalypse going on in the sky in your pics.

Where is Mark Ferguson with his thoughts? Somebody give him a nudge!

[Alex Miller]

  I need to visit Australia.

[Greg Tallman]

I believe I could play 2 and 3 over and over forever and perhaps be happy. Looks terrific.

[Kyle Henderson]

There is also a fantastic long par four from the 7th tee to the 2nd green.
The 2nd is a long iron across the bunkers - or you can drive far right and try and hit a hooking iron around the slope on the right.
Longer and it would be a brilliant par five.

That hypothetical hole (8th tee to 2nd green) does look like it could be fun, according to google maps. The blended fairways of the course are a bit disorienting for a 1st-time visitors, as Scott suggested earlier when he was playing the first and almost kept going right towards #18. I do like the free form effect (it also works well at Stone Eagle). Some how it inspires unconventional  ("out of the box") thinking on the tee. For instance, I  found myself thinking about playing to the "wrong" fairway on 7th/8th, but not to seek the 2nd green.

Thanks to Mr. Clayton, and Mr. Doak for their insights.

 And thank you to the treehouse for the bevy of enthusiastic participation and photo posting.

[Mark_F]

Thanks for sharing. Kyle, it looks like there was some sort of mini-apocalypse going on in the sky in your pics.

Where is Mark Ferguson with his thoughts? Somebody give him a nudge!

I don't want Kyle picking on me, George.   If you think the skies were apocalyptic, wait until the 3rd and 10th holes are discussed!

The 3rd and 4th holes are part of the routing excellence of the course; 1 and 2 are birdie chances for better players, 3 and 4 far more difficult. 1 and 2 also play either downwind or into the wind.  3 will have a drive crosswind, then an approach usually into or downwind.  Despite short-hitting Kyle's protestations that the the corner is too far to cut, it is actually only 210 metres, but the width and low dunal nature of the fairway makes it look much further.

I have written this before, but many golfers seem to think that they can hit an approach shot into a  green from anywhere in the fairway, and this is most emphatically not the case here on the 3rd.  You need to be in the correct position in the fairway to fire at the flag wherever it is. Otherwise you need to forget about hitting it close and either land it on the front if the pin is front, left or front right, or go long if the pin is mid-long right.
 
Most pin positions the bottom of the flag is obscured, so you need to think about where to land the ball and what the green contours will do once it lands.  If you miss the green short, you can use the contours of the green and the dunes surrounding it to funnel the ball back around to the hole.

MIke Clayton once wrote something along the lines that the 3rd, 10th and 13th holes here were designed to allow the scratch player to show why he is superior to the other low handicap players, and that if these holes were 30% easier, they would still be difficult for the average player, but wouldn't allow the better player to show his superiority. My friends who fit that description think 3,10 and 13 are some of the best holes on the course for precisely that reason. 

[Kyle Henderson]

Thanks for sharing. Kyle, it looks like there was some sort of mini-apocalypse going on in the sky in your pics.

Where is Mark Ferguson with his thoughts? Somebody give him a nudge!

Despite short-hitting Kyle's protestations that the the corner is too far to cut, it is actually only 210 metres, but the width and low dunal nature of the fairway makes it look much further.

Mark, my point is not that the carry requires a huge blast. Rather, the advantage gained by a perfect shot will probably not out-weight the extreme penalty of a slight push into the weeds. I think 99% of golfers would be wise to aim for the left side and get one far enough down the left center for a decent look at the approach.

Is this correct or an opinion of inexperience?

.

[Kalen Braley]

I can't believe how off the radar this course has been.

This looks simply awesome.

[Kyle Henderson]

I should probably mention that Mr. Ferguson kindly took me around when these photos were taken. I also had a follow-up lap a few days later with Sir Elvins, Gentleman Whitaker, and Von Kiser (victory for Team America West!!!).

[David_Elvins]

Despite short-hitting Kyle's protestations that the the corner is too far to cut, it is actually only 210 metres, but the width and low dunal nature of the fairway makes it look much further.

Without wanting to send you into an apocolyptic rage, I don't agree that the dune is 210 metres to carry.  I think the dune that flanks the right side of the fairway is a bit deceptive.  it flanks the fairway for a good 70-80 metres and the hole doesn't really bend around it until you are 320+ yards from the tee.  You want to hit a fade that finishes next to it, rather than carries any of it.  eg, if you want to carry it 240m, you might be able to cut off 1-2 metres.  you would want to know your carry distances very accurately!

I have written this before, but many golfers seem to think that they can hit an approach shot into a  green from anywhere in the fairway, and this is most emphatically not the case here on the 3rd.  You need to be in the correct position in the fairway to fire at the flag wherever it is. Otherwise you need to forget about hitting it close and either land it on the front if the pin is front, left or front right, or go long if the pin is mid-long right.

You defintely want to approach the green from the rghit hand side if you want to hold the green.  I wouldn't recommend that anyone fires at any pins ever.  Unless you have a wedge in your hand (more about that later).  If you have driven right, you can try and land the ball on the front of the green and stop it.  If you have driven left, th only sensible play is to aim at the geometric middle of the green and let the ball feed off the back edge. 

[Tom_Doak]

David:

Your use of the aerial photos just make me want to comment that I wish every course was maintained this way ... dry fairways, just a narrow collar of intermediate rough, and then native.  Even the fourth green is clearly on the dry side!

However, there is way too much native gunch on the hillside to the left and short of the green, which I have mentioned to the new management.  I don't mind a lot of native on the bank facing the second shot, but if you get your second shot over into the bowl, I would prefer it to bounce back down toward the green.  Looking for a ball in the native over the top of a hill is no fun at all.

P.S.  You guys are discussing the yardages to the corner as if you always played the back tee.  Do you really?  The hole is much different if you play from the second tee and don't hike all the way to the back ... it's a lot more fun for someone like me, and carrying the corner (or fading it around the corner) yields a big advantage.  From the second tee, it's also much too easy to drive it through the fairway into the left rough if you are playing safe.