To all and especially Don M,
I need to apologize for my last post--I over reacted and I am sorry. Don, I appreciate your PM and I appreciate the dialogue.
I did want to clear up where I may have misled some re: segregation and provide the link re: TGR resistance which as I understand better, is not an issue that supers are not already aware of and it seemed like a bigger deal to me than it most likely is and I apologize if that came through in my posts.
First--the segregation issue. The background of this was that Pat O'Brien had come and provided a Turf Advisory visit and had also agreed to a presentation and lengthy Q & A session afterwards from my membership. We had about 50 attendees. It is fair to say that Pat is a very exuberiant proponent of the ultra dwarfs and I have attended two additional seminars from Pat (and Chris Hartwigger) and it is fair to say that many bent grass supers were tired of hearing "how dumb" they were to keep fighting the bent and that everyone should be on the bermuda bandwagon
Even some supers who had the bermuda felt Pat was going a bit overboard "selling" everyone on the glories of the new ultra dwarfs. (Also, the bent supers wanted some help in terms of BMPs THEN to help solve their issues versus hearing about what shoulda, woulda and coulda been done).
Anyway, after the presentation we had dinner and after a grilling from my super and asst. he mentioned that of course, there were some "issues" and I believe he used the word segregation. I now realize that that word can have a significant meaning genetically. I understand that Champion is essentially a cloned grass with unique DNA that should pass down in tact for generations. If Mendelian Segregation were occuring and changing the fundamental plant DNA, that would be a big issue.
What was being referred to was that courses were noticing a "segregation" of color and perhaps texture on their greens. Pretty much there were some "patches" that developed over the years that did not seem as perfectly uniform as the rest of the grass. First, this was totally cosmetic because even if the texture were slightly different, cutting heights are so low on these ultra dwarf (below .100) that it would be undetectable.
What I believe he may have been referring to was not a genotypical mutation or segregation but a phenotypical one. The phenotype which I understand to be the outward appearance or manifestation of the plants genotype can vary based on environmental factors (again, if I understand correctly.) Perhaps this is the "segregation" people are noticing which is not a fundamental "break down" of the plants DNA. It can be a simple discoloration on a small section compared to another. BTW, this happens to bent as well.
Here is a link to a USGA article about genetic mutations in ultra dwarfs although I think they discuss Tifs not Champion. This may have been what Pat was referring to and I may have been confused but this is an interesting read:
http://turf.lib.msu.edu/2000s/2009/090120.pdfAs for the resistance to turf growth regulators I have attached an article from the USGA turf advisory newsletter that may be what my supers (both of them) were discussing the other day with another turf guy in the business. I also had my asst. email Dr. McCarty at Clemson University.
Lucas' (my asst.) email was this:
Dr. McCarty,
I have heard rumors that Champion Bermuda can become resistant to PGR applications. Is this true or just a rumor? I cant remember who told this to me and what literature they may have read, but if you know anything, can you give me a 5 x 9 explanation? The owner of our club is on the fence of whether or not he should even consider converting, but obviously a resistance issue could push him to either being comfortable with sticking to bent or considering mini-verde or tifeagle. Thanks very much!!
Lucas Walters
AGCS Rivermont Country Club
Dr. McCarty answered:
Lucas
Primo’s half life in the summer heat drops to less than 5-days, therefore, one gets less time of regulation, regardless of the bermudagrass.
Obviously, either a higher rate is used or it has to be applied more frequently during summer to overcome this.
Since Champion is typically a more aggressively growing grass, more Primo or more frequency of application will be needed for it.
Bert
The article suggesting resistance that may or may not have been the source of concern was this:
http://turf.lib.msu.edu/gsr/2010s/2010/100114.pdfIf you click on it you will see the article has NOTHING to do with TGR resistance
It does deal with fungicide resistance in some ultra dwarfs but it may have been what planted the "seed" about resistance.
The e-mail and explanation I received from Lucas and Don is this:
ALL grasses develop resistances to chemical applications and most of the time, since this is something supers deal with daily, they know what the heck to do--more frequent apps or higher rates. (Or rotating chemical use to try and prevent resistances from developing as quickly). The e-mail from Dr. McCarty does suggest the good news/bad news about Champion is that because it is such an aggressive growing grass (a good thing) its resistance to primo may be greater than that of mini verde and TifEagle. I did not mean to mislead anyone about this "resistance" issue and apologize if I did.
I have attached a number of pro and con articles about the bent/bermuda debate below. Please remember that what I suggest for all members who wish to be informed is this:
1. Read up if you are really interested--the USGA turf advisory service is great.
2. Understand that your course is a living organism and there are a zillion things to factor in to decisions like this.
3. Finally, defer to the professional opinion of your turf grass expert. He (should
) know as well as anyone all these zillion issues above .
Articles:
Covers: http://archive.constantcontact.com/fs003/1103157499740/archive/1104208581565.html
Bermuda grass problems: http://archive.constantcontact.com/fs003/1103157499740/archive/1104355704452.html
Bent grass problems: http://archive.constantcontact.com/fs003/1103157499740/archive/1103592058694.html
**Convert to bermuda now!
http://archive.constantcontact.com/fs003/1103157499740/archive/1104633545135.html**Bent grass still works! http://archive.constantcontact.com/fs003/1103157499740/archive/1104782157355.html
The bottom two articles are must reads if you are interested in this stuff!
Again, I apologize for over reacting and I really do appreciate the hard work and dedication of all supers out there like my guys and guys like Don. For guys like me who are interested in this stuff, go to usga.org and then look up old turf advisory articles--there are dozens about the pros and cons of bent and bermuda!