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John Burnes

  • Karma: +0/-0
Golf Course Architect of Trenton Country Club
« on: May 31, 2011, 06:10:05 PM »
I am a member at Trenton Country Club.  The club was supposedly founded in 1897, however, no course designer is known.  How would one find out who built the course?  Anyone ever have any success finding out such an endeavor?
The USGA is an hour up the street, we are in the state capital of New Jersey and no one knows!  Very frustrating.

6/30/2011 update

still  nothing
« Last Edit: June 30, 2011, 12:54:05 PM by John Burnes »
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paul cowley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Course Architect
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2011, 06:17:39 PM »
John

You've come to the right place to ask that question....and you'll probably have an answer within the hour!....hopefully.
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paul cowley...golf course architect/asgca

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Course Architect
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2011, 06:26:31 PM »
I found a few links...not sure how accurate the info is.  Couldn't find a designer, but perhaps this info could provide clues about which direction to go in your research!

http://www.twooverpar.com/FindaCourse/GolfCoursesinNewJersey/MercerCountyGolfCourses/TrentonCountryClub/tabid/1152/Default.aspx

http://www.gapgolf.org/clubs.asp?cid=121

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John Burnes

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Course Architect
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2011, 06:48:54 PM »
Thanks-I saw alot of these links already.

My suspicion was that this became a full 18 holes in the 1913-1920 range..that is the guy I am looking for.
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Dónal Ó Ceallaigh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Course Architect
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2011, 05:41:45 AM »
John,

You should modify the title of this topic to "Golf Course Architect of Trenton CC??".
Click "Modify" and "Save".

I'm sure when MacWood, Moriarty, Young, et al. see the title they'll chime in.
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Sean Remington (SBR)

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Course Architect
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2011, 06:43:32 AM »
Hi John   -  I recommend you contact the Golf Course Superintendent at Trenton,  Tom Tuttle.  I'm sure he has some good information that might help you along.   
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Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Course Architect
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2011, 07:06:25 AM »
Given the dates in the club history from gapgolf.org, the answer could be "unknown."

http://www.gapgolf.org/clubs.asp?cid=121

Who was the architect involved in the recent "extensive restoration" work?

https://www.memberstatements.com/tour/tours.cfm?tourid=21607

Sounds like a old newspaper research project for Professor Joe Bausch.
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"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Willie_Dow

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Course Architect
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2011, 09:45:56 AM »
Having played squash at the Trenton Club, in town, I seem to remember Jodie Comley discussing golf at The Trenton Golf Club.

Could it be a similar situation as Merion Cricket becoming Merion Golf ?

You'll have to check out the old records and minutes at the Trenton Club.
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Tim Gerrish

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Course Architect
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2011, 10:40:34 AM »
Nothing in "The Architects of Golf"
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Sean_Tully

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Course Architect
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2011, 02:55:31 PM »
John-

I will see if I have anything on it at home.

Two things that I can add is that for the 1901 Harper's Golf Guide TCC is not mentioned. Not familiar with the area but worth looking into to see if another course matches up. There are other versions available I just had that one in my office.

Also read where "Oaklands" appears in parenthesis next to Trenton CC.

Not sure if this helps- but worth mentioning.

Also, check with the Super as someone above also mentioned--it seems they just finished up a restoration effort there.

Tully
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Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Course Architect
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2011, 03:31:02 PM »
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Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

John Burnes

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Course Architect of Trenton Country Club
« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2011, 07:34:04 PM »
still nothing on this effort.
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Joe Bausch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Course Architect of Trenton Country Club
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2011, 07:56:20 PM »
Quote from: John Burnes on July 24, 2011, 07:34:04 PM
still nothing on this effort.

I've looked John, but nothing.  Well, not yet.  I'm confident it will show eventually.

If you haven't done so already, I would do the following:

1.  See if the city and/or county has a historical society.  They can likely be a big help.

2.  Talk to a reference librarian at a public library in Trenton.

3.  Worst case, find out the most prominent newspaper in the city during those days and find out what library has it on microfilm.  Then get read to spend a couple of weekends going through it manually to find the answer.

Alternatively, just wait around maybe for five to ten years and nearly all these old newspapers will be digitized and you'll be able to find the answer much easier.   :)
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@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Mike Cirba

Re: Golf Course Architect of Trenton Country Club
« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2011, 07:59:39 PM »
John,

I have something for you on Trenton.  Let me dig it up in the next day or so.
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Mike Cirba

Re: Golf Course Architect of Trenton Country Club
« Reply #14 on: July 24, 2011, 08:12:51 PM »
The 18 hole course that exists today was laid out by pro Jimmie Norton in 1914.

I have info on the original 1897 course but suspect the members did it.
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Mike Cirba

Re: Golf Course Architect of Trenton Country Club
« Reply #15 on: July 24, 2011, 08:28:50 PM »
John Burnes,

I trust this is the information you're looking for from June 1914?  

The articles I have of the club opening in 1897/1898 don't mention an architect being involved.   I believe some of the prominent members may have laid out those first rudimentary holes.

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Sam Morrow

Re: Golf Course Architect of Trenton Country Club
« Reply #16 on: July 24, 2011, 09:10:55 PM »
I knew either Joe or Mike would be able to find something, you guys are unreal.
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Mike Cirba

Re: Golf Course Architect of Trenton Country Club
« Reply #17 on: July 25, 2011, 06:40:44 AM »
John Burnes,

Here's a bit more;   Jimmie Norton was the brother of Willie Norton, who was the pro at Deal (NJ) and who also laid out a number of early courses in the region.

« Last Edit: July 25, 2011, 06:54:36 AM by MCirba »
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Willie_Dow

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Course Architect of Trenton Country Club
« Reply #18 on: July 31, 2011, 09:36:32 AM »
Great find Mike !

Now, let's look up the history of The Trenton Club.  I bet the membership at that time was full of the same names.

Much like MCC & MGC ?
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Mike Cirba

Re: Golf Course Architect of Trenton Country Club
« Reply #19 on: July 31, 2011, 10:42:31 AM »
Bill Dow,

Great to hear from you!  ;D

Ask, and ye shall receive...


October 13, 1897




November 13, 1897



March 1, 1898




May 13, 1905




April 1, 1909




October 18, 1911

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John Burnes

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Course Architect of Trenton Country Club
« Reply #20 on: July 31, 2011, 11:21:38 AM »
Mike-

The initial article you shared with me (Trenton evening, 6/1914) does state that James Norton did the 18-hole layout.

However, the article (Trenton evening, 1898) states that the golf links has already been laid out.  So who did this then?
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Mike Cirba

Re: Golf Course Architect of Trenton Country Club
« Reply #21 on: July 31, 2011, 11:28:19 AM »
John,

From the looks of it, it seems probable the early members laid out the first holes over the winter of 1897/98, of which there were nine in play by 1901.   The fact that the club was organized in October 1897 and by November they were trying to prepare a course (which they had in play by March 1898) tells me that it was a crude one put together by the golf members of the club most likely, probably Van Syckel, Roebling, and Janeway.   A May 1898 article I found indicated that golf was becoming more popular than tennis.

Jimmy Norton's 18 hole course in 1913 was termed a "new" course, but it's likely that he used at least some of the original holes.  
« Last Edit: July 31, 2011, 11:37:16 AM by MCirba »
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paul cowley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Course Architect of Trenton Country Club
« Reply #22 on: July 31, 2011, 11:39:57 AM »
You're the MAN Mr Cirba!
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paul cowley...golf course architect/asgca

Mike Cirba

Re: Golf Course Architect of Trenton Country Club
« Reply #23 on: July 31, 2011, 11:43:30 AM »
Thank you kindly, Mr. Cowley!   Glad to be of help here, Charlatan though I may be.  ;)  ;D
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John Burnes

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Course Architect of Trenton Country Club
« Reply #24 on: August 01, 2011, 07:31:07 PM »
Mike-

How would you reccommend I go about finding out who designed the original holes of 1898?
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