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Richard Choi

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Please vote for your favorite. You have till EOD Sunday. Anyone can vote, not just people who have played the holes. What I do ask of people who have played either of the holes is to advocate strongly (or speak against it) why you believe this hole deserves some love.

Happy voting!

Richard Choi

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Re: THM Redan! Mucci Div 7th Seed Charleston #11 vs 10th Fishers #2
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2011, 11:47:23 PM »
Mucci Division, #7 Seed, CC of Charleston, Hole #11

"THE coolest Redan I have played" - Chip Gaskins




Richard Choi

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Re: THM Redan! Mucci Div 7th Seed Charleston #11 vs 10th Fishers #2
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2011, 11:48:15 PM »
Mucci Division, #10 Seed, Fishers Island, Hole #2, 170 yards

From Ran - The classic set of Seth Raynor one shotters are found at Fishers Island, with the first one being a Redan with the green angled away at 45 degrees and the usual slope from the back right. This hole can be a rude awakening to golfers not accustomed to the effect of the wind as apond in front of this Redan gobbles up a ballooned tee ball.





Kevin Pallier

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Re: THM Redan! Mucci Div 7th Seed Charleston #11 vs 10th Fishers #2
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2011, 08:01:21 AM »
Richard

You need to change the heading to #2 at FI  ;)

I haven't played the Charleston but have FI. Whilst it's not the best Redan I've seen it's a fun little hole particularly into the wind with the ocean just over the back which from the first photo one can see is pretty close by.

I'd suspect that many come up short and the pond is an interesting feature.

Mark McKeever

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: THM Redan! Mucci Div 7th Seed Charleston #11 vs 10th Fishers #2
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2011, 11:23:04 AM »
Remove the scenery...Charleston Upset.

Mark
« Last Edit: May 31, 2011, 02:18:03 PM by Mark McKeever »
Best MGA showers - Bayonne

"Dude, he's a total d***"

Bill Brightly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: THM Redan! Mucci Div 7th Seed Charleston #11 vs 10th Fishers #2
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2011, 12:39:46 PM »
Fishers Island

PCCraig

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Re: THM Redan! Mucci Div 7th Seed Charleston #11 vs 10th Fishers #2
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2011, 01:07:17 PM »
CC of C by a length.
H.P.S.

Kalen Braley

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Re: THM Redan! Mucci Div 7th Seed Charleston #11 vs 10th Fishers #2
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2011, 03:28:42 PM »
CC of C looks more interesting with the large upslope just short of the green.

Bill Brightly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: THM Redan! Mucci Div 7th Seed Charleston #11 vs 10th Fishers #2
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2011, 03:52:38 PM »
Remove the scenery...Charleston Upset.

Mark

Yeah, let's just forget that the Long Island Sound is a stone's throw from the green. :)

Photos can't show wind, so let's keep that in mind when considering how these two holes actually play.

I always think it is wrong to take away from a course or a hole because it happens to be blessed with a superb site. What green would you rather be standing on: Fishers Island #2 or CC of C #11?

Richard Choi

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: THM Redan! Mucci Div 7th Seed Charleston #11 vs 10th Fishers #2
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2011, 05:31:16 PM »
Bill, Fisher's is one of the shortest redan in this competition. How does wind help/hurt it?

I would think the prevailing wind has to be from the back as head wind just means the ball will stop quickly after it lands. But if the prevalent wind is a tail wind, I would think you don't need much more tha 7 or 8 iron to the green...

Garland Bayley

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Re: THM Redan! Mucci Div 7th Seed Charleston #11 vs 10th Fishers #2
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2011, 06:29:55 PM »
Charleston.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Bill Brightly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: THM Redan! Mucci Div 7th Seed Charleston #11 vs 10th Fishers #2
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2011, 06:44:46 PM »
Bill, Fisher's is one of the shortest redan in this competition. How does wind help/hurt it?

I would think the prevailing wind has to be from the back as head wind just means the ball will stop quickly after it lands. But if the prevalent wind is a tail wind, I would think you don't need much more tha 7 or 8 iron to the green...

Alas, I cannot answer from experience... Ran's write-up suggests that the wind direction can vary from day to day, which means you probably need a great variety of shots. However, I highly doubt that I would play two clubs less in a two-club tailwind because controlling the roll will be a big problem. If it is a strong head wind, I would think players are deathly afraid of simply throwing it up in the air, and the preference would be to keep it low and bounce it on. So my guess is that the hole may well play MORE like the architect's intent than many other inland Redans. Hopefully, others who have played it can comment.

Ronald Montesano

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Re: THM Redan! Mucci Div 7th Seed Charleston #11 vs 10th Fishers #2
« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2011, 07:42:38 PM »
Remove the scenery...Charleston Upset.

Mark

What green would you rather be standing on: Fishers Island #2 or CC of C #11?

And the point here is what? To lure people to select one or the other based on where they would rather be? I'd rather be in Chucktown some days and this island called Fishers on others.

Let me in on what I'm missing

I will say that the Chip Gaskins quote on CCC need not be there to sway voters.
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: THM Redan! Mucci Div 7th Seed Charleston #11 vs 10th Fishers #2
« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2011, 07:44:40 PM »
Based on the photos alone, I vote Fishers. Their P.R. people at least had the decency to send some good photos. The ones from CCC, frankly, swallow. They don't show me the hole at all. In contrast, I get the FI one from all angles.
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: THM Redan! Mucci Div 7th Seed Charleston #11 vs 10th Fishers #2
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2011, 07:53:39 PM »
The factor to remember about Fishers Island is that it plays genuinely fast and firm - as in even a Brit raised on links golf would be impressed with its firmness.

As such, even with a helping wind, I don't think you'd want to be hoisting a short iron because with the wind negating some of the spin you'd almost certainly be watching it bounce long.

I would expect most people would want to be using the slopes to work the ball on, keeping it out of the wind regardless of direction. From memory my two rounds there were one into the wind on the 2nd hole and one with the wind, but I could be remembering that incorrectly.

The kickpad also works a treat, both from the tee and as a way of getting the ball close on recovery shots.

I look at that upslope at the front of the CC of C reverse redan (or nader if that kind of thing is your bag) and wonder how it affects the ability to run the ball on, given a fade is often wont to run far less than a draw even without a steep slope to navigate.

It seems to me that despite the CC of C hole having more of the obvious visuals, it's not likely to play as faithfully to the ideals of a redan hole as the Fishers Island example.

I vote Fishers Island.

Bill Brightly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: THM Redan! Mucci Div 7th Seed Charleston #11 vs 10th Fishers #2
« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2011, 07:59:26 PM »
Remove the scenery...Charleston Upset.

Mark

What green would you rather be standing on: Fishers Island #2 or CC of C #11?

And the point here is what? To lure people to select one or the other based on where they would rather be? I'd rather be in Chucktown some days and this island called Fishers on others.

Let me in on what I'm missing

I will say that the Chip Gaskins quote on CCC need not be there to sway voters.

Tricks,

My point is that FI is special site, the best Raynor ever had to work with, IMHO. To be standing on a Redan green with the Long Island Sound at your back, and all that goes with a true links setting...
« Last Edit: May 31, 2011, 08:10:07 PM by Bill Brightly »

Ronald Montesano

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Re: THM Redan! Mucci Div 7th Seed Charleston #11 vs 10th Fishers #2
« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2011, 08:04:45 PM »
Thanks, Bill. Appreciated.
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Mark McKeever

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: THM Redan! Mucci Div 7th Seed Charleston #11 vs 10th Fishers #2
« Reply #17 on: June 01, 2011, 11:59:31 AM »
Remove the scenery...Charleston Upset.

Mark

Yeah, let's just forget that the Long Island Sound is a stone's throw from the green. :)

Photos can't show wind, so let's keep that in mind when considering how these two holes actually play.

I always think it is wrong to take away from a course or a hole because it happens to be blessed with a superb site. What green would you rather be standing on: Fishers Island #2 or CC of C #11?

Bill,

The vote isnt which hole you would rather be standing on.  Its voting for the best redan.  That's why I voted independent of where the hole sits on the globe.

Mark
Best MGA showers - Bayonne

"Dude, he's a total d***"

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: THM Redan! Mucci Div 7th Seed Charleston #11 vs 10th Fishers #2
« Reply #18 on: June 01, 2011, 12:12:26 PM »
I've only played Fishers and the wind plays havoc.  Even though Charleston looks very cool, gotta go Fishers here.
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Kevin Pallier

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Re: THM Redan! Mucci Div 7th Seed Charleston #11 vs 10th Fishers #2
« Reply #19 on: June 01, 2011, 07:44:30 PM »
Bill, Fisher's is one of the shortest redan in this competition. How does wind help/hurt it?

I would think the prevailing wind has to be from the back as head wind just means the ball will stop quickly after it lands. But if the prevalent wind is a tail wind, I would think you don't need much more tha 7 or 8 iron to the green...

Richard

I'm not sure about the prevailing winds but on the day I played it in 8 shots from pretty decent golfers only one I think managed to hit the target. The amount that were just short outweighed everything else.

The wind was virtually neglible in the AM and quite strong in the PM into us if I recall correctly.


Scott Warren

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Re: THM Redan! Mucci Div 7th Seed Charleston #11 vs 10th Fishers #2
« Reply #20 on: June 01, 2011, 07:58:41 PM »
I've got the vote as All Square at this stage, with a few having made comments but not clearly voted one way or the other.

Richard Choi

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Re: THM Redan! Mucci Div 7th Seed Charleston #11 vs 10th Fishers #2
« Reply #21 on: June 06, 2011, 12:45:17 PM »
This vote stands at 4 to 4!!!

We are going on sudden death. Next poster to vote wins!

Jason Baran

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Re: THM Redan! Mucci Div 7th Seed Charleston #11 vs 10th Fishers #2
« Reply #22 on: June 06, 2011, 12:48:37 PM »
I was going to vote Richard, but that's way to much pressure for me.

Richard Choi

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: THM Redan! Mucci Div 7th Seed Charleston #11 vs 10th Fishers #2
« Reply #23 on: June 06, 2011, 12:53:05 PM »
C'mon Jason! Have some balls! :)

Garland Bayley

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Re: THM Redan! Mucci Div 7th Seed Charleston #11 vs 10th Fishers #2
« Reply #24 on: June 06, 2011, 12:54:14 PM »
Being an ignoramus, I withdraw my vote for Charleston.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

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