[Jim Nugent]

But how does that explain any of the holes described above? 

As Kalen pointed out, the Road Hole was originally a par 5.  That said, I have no problem with the type of hole you described. 

[Jim Nugent]

Any par 3s on the list, for scratch and better golfers? 

Would CPC 16th count ?

Maybe so.  Which raises the question, why isn't such a famous hole copied more, in principal if not in the exact execution?  i.e. a real long par 3 that requires a heroic carry, but also gives an out for the golfer who wants or needs to play safe. 

[Sean_A]

I usually don't much like the hard side of half par holes in and of themselves.  What I like is a juxtaposition of hard four an easy five.  Its cool when you get this back to back or very close together (which would often mean they head in opposite directions).  In a way a player can look at these two, if played consecutively, as one long hole with an overall goal between them - say a 4 on the par 5 and 5 on the par 4.  I don't see this configuration often, but I reckon its a good way to eat up a chunk of land that is not terribly inspiring.  

All this said, I think Deal's 3rd is a terrific hard side half par two-shotter and that is often with not much more than a 7 or 8 iron if you hit a good drive.  

Another terrific example is Burnham's 18th.  Its a tough hole for many to reach in two so getting position on the second if one can't reach (or if its unlikely one will be successful even if they can reach) is paramount.  

And just for young Scott, I have to mention St Enodoc's 10th.  A ball buster par 4 but, still so good because of its uniqueness.

Ciao

[Scott Warren]

Who ever hit an 8i into the 3rd at Deal? You been in the gym, Sean?!

15 at The Addington qualifies.
18 at Riviera.

[Sean_A]

Who ever hit an 8i into the 3rd at Deal? You been in the gym, Sean?!

15 at The Addington qualifies.
18 at Riviera.

Scott

Jeepers, I know if I hit a good drive I can get past the bunkers so I would have thought a good player from the daily tee would hit past the bunkers on many an occassion and have wedge in.  Last Saturday I was level with the bunkers and hit an 8 iron.  I think it was about 160ish (maybe less to the forward pin). 

Good call on Addy, but I would have gone for 12 and 13. 

Ciao

[Phil McDade]

Doug:

It was you! I actually think (as some have already mentioned) that Lawsonia may have two or three hard half-par holes -- #4 into the wind probably qualifies, #10 perhaps (although that's over level land, and that green is huge, albiet three-putting is a real possibility once there), and #13 can be for the mid-high handicapper. I actually think #16 is a really tough hole -- uphill most of the way, blind outcomes to shots; to me that hole is pretty tough.

I think #s 9 and 10 at Pebble Beach probably qualify, at least in tournament conditions.

The finishing stretch at Carnoustie is also a pretty good example.

[Niall C]

I'm going to make a few nominations from my new course at Lossie, Moray Old. The 2nd and 8th are two long par 4's that i've yet to get within 10 yards of in two. And both of them have had my sunday best.

But the hole I would like to nominate is the par 3 4th. Just over 180 yds off the yellows, the green is small and long set at an angle and set in a bit of a hollow. Invariably there's a wind into your face and across so for me that means rescue or easy and sometimes not so easy fairway wood. Out of a dozen attempts so far I've managed to get on once. And when you miss, its not easy to get up and down. Cracking hole IMHO.

Niall

[Stan Dodd]

Foxy

[Jon Spaulding]

NGLA #5 is quite a challenge as a par 4.

[Bill_McBride]

I think hard half-par holes are great (Foxy, the Road Hole, #12 Oakmont for example). Making a par as an average player makes your day!

[Scott Warren]

Stan,

Great nomination. I trust Whitty didn't birdie it again this visit, the bastard!

[Charlie Visconsi]

#15 at Siwanoy / 458 and 440.  Wind usually in your face.  par always seems to be like a birdie

[Phil McDade]

I usually don't much like the hard side of half par holes in and of themselves.  What I like is a juxtaposition of hard four an easy five.  Its cool when you get this back to back or very close together (which would often mean they head in opposite directions).  In a way a player can look at these two, if played consecutively, as one long hole with an overall goal between them - say a 4 on the par 5 and 5 on the par 4.  I don't see this configuration often, but I reckon its a good way to eat up a chunk of land that is not terribly inspiring.  

Sean:

This is one of the reasons I've always liked the 17-18 finish at The Old Course. Play the two holes combined in 8 strokes, and you've probably kept pace with the field. Less than that, and you're picking up strokes on the field in all likelihood.

[Mark Pearce]

13 at Balcomie. 

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