American imports

[Tom MacWood]

Park, Colt, Fowler, Simpson, Alison, Mackenzie, etc came to America to design some very high profile courses, were there any American architects who designed courses in the UK or Europe? I don't know of any. Why not?

[Mark Bourgeois]

Have you put this question to Willie Sutton?

[David_Tepper]

Didn't Robert Trent Jones design a number of courses in Spain & Italy?

[Mark Chaplin]

Tom I am told that Douglas Grant was the first American amateur to come to the UK to play at a high level and that was after 1910. I doubt if anyone came over to design courses certainly before 1920.

[Tom MacWood]

Didn't Robert Trent Jones design a number of courses in Spain & Italy?

Quite a few Americans designed courses over there during the modern era...I was thinking more along the lines of CB Macdonald, Ross, Raynor, Tillinghast, Thompson, Thomas, Strong, Travis, etc.

[Jeff_Brauer]

I  wonder if soldiers, then as now, create makeshift battlefield or encampment courses. Perhaps the first Euro American designed course was a WWI staff sargent with a passion for golf?

[Tyler Kearns]

Didn't Robert Trent Jones design a number of courses in Spain & Italy?

Quite a few Americans designed courses over there during the modern era...I was thinking more along the lines of CB Macdonald, Ross, Raynor, Tillinghast, Thompson, Thomas, Strong, Travis, etc.

Tom,

Both Stanley Thompson & CB Macdonald were born in Canada!

TK

[Wayne_Kozun]

Thompson did a few courses in Brazil as well. 

[Garland Bayley]

Didn't Robert Trent Jones design a number of courses in Spain & Italy?

Quite a few Americans designed courses over there during the modern era...I was thinking more along the lines of CB Macdonald, Ross, Raynor, Tillinghast, Thompson, Thomas, Strong, Travis, etc.

Tom,

Both Stanley Thompson & CB Macdonald were born in Canada!

TK

Well, if you are going to get picky, perhaps you should name everyone's birthplace.

[Niall C]

I have a report from Golfing from 1904 which credits Devereaux Emmet with laying out the original 9 hole County Meath course in Ireland which if it were true would be around 1898.

I also recall from c.1923 an "American" architect having given suggestions on Braids East Renfrewshire course during construction. Can't recall off-hand the architect but from memory I think he was an ex-pat.

Niall

[Steve Kline]

Ross is from Scotland.

[Tom MacWood]

Ross is from Scotland.

Ross is from Scotland, Macdonald & Thompson from Canada, Strong is from England, and Travis is from Australia, but they are all American, or North American, golf architects.

[Tom MacWood]

I have a report from Golfing from 1904 which credits Devereaux Emmet with laying out the original 9 hole County Meath course in Ireland which if it were true would be around 1898.

I also recall from c.1923 an "American" architect having given suggestions on Braids East Renfrewshire course during construction. Can't recall off-hand the architect but from memory I think he was an ex-pat.

Niall

That is fascinating about Emmet. Ross was in the UK in 1924.

[Tony_Chapman]

Park, Colt, Fowler, Simpson, Alison, Mackenzie, etc came to America to design some very high profile courses, were there any American architects who designed courses in the UK or Europe? I don't know of any. Why not?

Tom -- My best guess would be that the world at the time was a 'come from Europe to America' type culture. With the game in Europe and UK well-established, why would they turn to a 'new' American designer when they had plenty to begin with in the first place.

[Sean_A]

Ross is from Scotland.

Ross is from Scotland, Macdonald & Thompson from Canada, Strong is from England, and Travis is from Australia, but they are all American, or North American, golf architects.

Tommy Mac

What does this mean and what is its relevance?

Ciao

[Tom MacWood]

Park, Colt, Fowler, Simpson, Alison, Mackenzie, etc came to America to design some very high profile courses, were there any American architects who designed courses in the UK or Europe? I don't know of any. Why not?

Tom -- My best guess would be that the world at the time was a 'come from Europe to America' type culture. With the game in Europe and UK well-established, why would they turn to a 'new' American designer when they had plenty to begin with in the first place.

Tony
I think you are right. And there was probably more golf course activity in America, and more money, post WWI. People go where the money is.

[Adam Clayman]

Jack Nicklaus. Maybe not so much UK and europe, but definitely globally.

How about all the one's who've worked ion Asia?

Or is this limited to ODG's?

[Tom MacWood]

Pre-WWII.

[Mike_Young]

Tom,
Were any of the names you mention able to make a living and retire designing courses in the U.S.?  or did they have other endeavors also such as golf pro, family money?

[Adam Clayman]

Pre-WWII.

A key qualifier missing from your original post.

The answer seems obvious as to why not.

The sport was not prolific enough, for long enough, in the U.S. to create home grown architects that would be exported.

Plus,
How many courses were built overseas, especially in UK and europe between 1914 and 1946? With two world wars being held there, and, other economic factors, golf wouldn't have been a priority. Would it?

[Mark Bourgeois]

Park, Colt, Fowler, Simpson, Alison, Mackenzie, etc came to America to design some very high profile courses, were there any American architects who designed courses in the UK or Europe? I don't know of any. Why not?

Tom -- My best guess would be that the world at the time was a 'come from Europe to America' type culture. With the game in Europe and UK well-established, why would they turn to a 'new' American designer when they had plenty to begin with in the first place.

Tony
I think you are right. And there was probably more golf course activity in America, and more money, post WWI. People go where the money is.

So you did ask Willie Sutton!

Post WW1 Europe and UK were broke, US was flush as a property bubble of historic proportions inflated in Florida + the great California migration got underway.

The US in the 1920s was the place to be, not just if you liked a glimpse of stocking but if you found real estate shocking. In Fla in the '20s heaven knows anything goes. Long Island and Cali, too.

[Garland Bayley]

Ross is from Scotland.

Ross is from Scotland, Macdonald & Thompson from Canada, Strong is from England, and Travis is from Australia, but they are all American, or North American, golf architects.

Tommy Mac

What does this mean and what is its relevance?

Ciao

It means that sometimes Canadians can be a little obnoxious. But, if you had read the whole thread you have known that.

[Tyler Kearns]

Ross is from Scotland.

Ross is from Scotland, Macdonald & Thompson from Canada, Strong is from England, and Travis is from Australia, but they are all American, or North American, golf architects.

Tommy Mac

What does this mean and what is its relevance?

Ciao

It means that sometimes Canadians can be a little obnoxious. But, if you had read the whole thread you have known that.

Garland,

Ouch!!

Sean,

This obnoxious Canadians does not like to be lumped together with our good neighbours to the south and called an American. While there are many similarities between the two countries, there are also some distinct differences.

TK

[Marty Bonnar]

Ross is from Scotland.

Ross is from Scotland, Macdonald & Thompson from Canada, Strong is from England, and Travis is from Australia, but they are all American, or North American, golf architects.

Tom,
with all the due-est of due respect. Many stupid things have been posted on this website - indeed, I am proud to say many of them mine - , but that is the stupidestest thing I've ever seen here. AND, it's just about as close an invitation to war that this Scotsman can take.
Sir, I DEMAND satisfaction.
Tomorrow at dawn, I shall be waiting upon the duelling grounds at St Andrews, mashie-niblick in hand. I expect you to be there.
No graphite, no carbon fibre. Apart from that, anything goes.
See you there,
FBD.

[Tom MacWood]

Marty
Unless you are an American Indian we all came from somewhere else, and the same goes for our brothers to the north (and south for that matter). Which brings up the question, who is the greatest Mexican born golf architect?