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Tony Ristola

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Fast Greens
« on: January 30, 2002, 01:22:59 PM »
Isn't the modern trend of getting ice-fast greens an artificial answer, like Carnoustie-ing a golf course proof that the ball is out of control, and extreme measures are required to prevent scores from diving to new depths?  

Does it really test the most skilled golfer or the golfer with the best nerves?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Chris Hervochon

Re: Fast Greens
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2002, 05:02:21 PM »
I think fast greens make golf easier.  Sure it requires more touch and better struck shots, but that can only make you better.  While putting, the ball is rolling slower near the hole; increasing the chance of going in.  Plus, contours are usually less severe.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Michael_Stachowicz

Re: Fast Greens
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2002, 05:03:22 AM »
Rather than gym floor fast, is a combination of good speed and bringing grain back the key to protecting par?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Matt_Davenport

Re: Fast Greens
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2002, 05:16:15 AM »
Tony,
This has definitely been a hot topic in the Philadelphia area for the past few years.  Why is it necessary to radically alter the speed of greens?  I know the new breeds of bentgrass (A's and G's) promote a lower cutting height while providing a more dense cover (grass plants per area).  My best experience this past year was playing at a Top-100 course where the greens weren't too fast, but they were extremely smooth...........  The course was set up for a meeting of Golf Course Superintendents (so I'm sure pride was on the line) but I think if putting greens are smooth and rolling true, who cares what speed the greens are rolling.  Especially on older courses with more than adequate surface drainage (read, plenty of contour), faster translates to un-puttable :'(  Modern design standards do call for flatter putting surfaces (up to 3%) which I think makes for very boring greens.  I don't believe in flat greens where the best ball striker has the decided advantage.  I prefer greens with movement to challenge all aspects of a golfer's short game--chipping, pitching, and putting.  There is nothing I enjoy more than a huge landform in a green that creates distinct cuppable areas within the putting surface.  If the new turfgrasses are going to eliminate the judicious use of contour in putting surfaces, I say ban them, raise the cutting height, and dry things out.  Let's return the game to the overwhelming majority!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Ken_Cotner

Re: Fast Greens
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2002, 05:38:55 AM »
I was reading one of the essays in "Masters of the Links" last night; and there are 2 "before and after" photos of a MacKenzie green (during construction and when complete).  It appears to be the wildest looking green I have seen, with undulations climbing and falling several feet.

It is an old and oft-repeated mantra that you can't build greens like this today unless the speed is slowed down.  I would love to play on courses which have a few greens like this.  Maybe Strantz comes closest today?

KC
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »