Bayside!! (with photos)

[Tom_Doak]

One of the best golf shots I've ever seen in person was Michael Clayton playing an iron shot to the top right of that 17th green with a draw, to feed down to the left-hand hole location, when we played the course ten years ago.  Michael also came pretty close to getting home in two on the 11th, but when we got up near the green he said he would never have tried if he'd seen it beforehand.

[RJ_Daley]

Compare to Wildhorse? 

Dan, here is how I'd compare it to WH.  The front nine at Bayside is 'arguably' better than either one 9 at WH on the fun scale and easy to walk.  The back nine at Bayside has some really fantastic holes.  Some are thrill rides like 11 as a par 5, and 13 or 17 as par 3s, and also excellent par 4s like 12, 14 and 16.  I'm in the camp that says that the last 130 yards and behind the green on 15 just doesn't cut it as good design.  The distance from 10G to 11T and 15G to 16T are deterents to walking. 

But, I'd be regular there if I lived in Oga like Adam.  It is a blast.  My suggestion is play 36 there.  Walk the front, ride the back, walk the front, ride the back.  It will be one hell of a fun day, I guarantee.

[Adam Clayman]

An interesting phenomenon has happened here. The hollow on the right in this picture (Down below the green and trees) is now a natural water hazard. The Lake is so full that there;s a few feet of water in the bottom.

Tom, Re The 17th green.

Up until yesterday, I questioned the ability to get from behind the bunker to a bottom left, or center, pin. That was because I only thought about it in context of going towards the left side to go around, but since the hill does NOT throw the ball back to the center from the left side, I thought the hole flawed.
Like I said, until yesterday, when I was up on top behind the bunker and the pin was down on the other side. What I did was putt the ball off the green back towards the back right side of the green, where it ran up the embankment, rolling all the way to the bulbous nose that separates the green sections, took an immediate right turn and ended up gimme distance.

In our group, I was first to tee off and declined to play for a $1 for closey. I hit sand wedge 20 yards into the gunk. Everyone else took the wager and one player after the next, put it inside the previous shot. A great happenstance since the first shot was only about 15'. My two putt gave me a 5 because I re-teed, but this time with a knocked down 8 iron, which stayed on top. Each one of the other 4 players wouldn't shut up about how much fun that was. Not their battle for the 3 dollars, my putt off the green that caught the slope and trickled to the hole.

[Mike_Clayton]

Tom,

I do remember that second shot at 11 - it seems about as wildly difficult as the second shot at Kidnappers 15th hole.

[Jay Flemma]

That looks absolutely fantastic!  Great photos and congrats on such a great trip.  How cool are those fairway undulations?!

[Stewart Abramson]

Ben - Thanks for the hole by hole report and photos. Brought back great memories of my trip to Bayside last July.

If anyone can't get enough of the course here's a link to more photos

http://sports.webshots.com/album/578358964BloaTr

[Mark Saltzman]

I had my first experience with Nebraska golf today at Bayside.  Before playing, I considered it a 'B-level' course on my itinerary - one that was missable if I felt tired or a bit tight for time.  I was very wrong! Bayside is exceptional and playing it was about as much fun as I have ever had on a golf course.

I will post a few photos later to add to what Ben posted, but for now, a few comments:

1) The issue raised re long carries.  I played the black tees (6500 yards, par 71, CR 71, SL 126), though I am certainly not a long hitter.  Long carries was not really an issue for me (11 was a bit tight), but I am fairly certain I played in the prevailing wind.  If the wind switched on me I would have had zero fun on a bunch of holes (at least from the tees I played).  

The carry on one was mentioned, this may look long, but even into a good wind, it really wasn't bad.

The carry on 4 is quite long, 200 yards on the scorecard and it is completely blind.  This hole played into a very strong wind.

The carry on 10 is 220 yards at the closest point, but played straight downwind so was not an issue.

The carry on 11 is 236 yards over the nearest bunker, but the preferred line a little farther left is closer to 250 yards.  Again straight down wind.

2) The undulations around the greens are exceptional.  In particular, the slopes left of 6 green and 13 green are perfect.  On both holes I was thinking that the greens were too small given the length of the shot and the predominant wind.  These slopes give the clever player a much wider range of yardage that will allow the ball to stop on the green.

3) OK, so every course has a couple of things not to like.  First, what is the deal with the tree in front of the green on 15?  Maybe with repeated plays I would see the 'proper' way to play this hole, but I didn't see the need for that tree.  Second, I plain didn't enjoy 10.  It just felt like one of those holes where there was nothing to think about.  Make sure you carry the hazard and don't go through the fairway and the fairway undulations will mean basically everyone has the same 75 yard approach into the green.

4) I think the 150 yard tee on 17 has been removed.  Is this correct?  Playing the blacks, it played as only 125 yards.  Also, I couldn't find the 220 yard tee on 8.  Is that ever in play?

5) How often is the 'prevailing wind' the actual wind?  Like I said, holes like 10 and 11 would become unplayable for me, but also holes like 6 and 13 would become really, really hard.

[JNC Lyon]

To the 5th Major crew meeting at Denver airport on Thursday: should we play Bayside on the way to Dismal on Friday?

[RJ_Daley]

I hope Adam weighs in on an elimination of the 150 tee on 17.  I sure hope that isn't so.  With the helping prevailing wind, it is a very fair and reasonable shot.  Hell, I'm a hack and getting old dude and I've used 8 iron there comfortably.  I'm trying to visualize Adam's putt from backside of center of green bunker and if I'm understanding him correct, he putted away from the flag on bottom left or middle left as we see it in the pic and up towards the native browned out area but am unclear if it then came back down on the back side of the center bunker, and found its way near the hole, or did it actually come back around on front side towards the tee side of center bunker and curl in there to the left side middle tee we see?  A guy could have a lot of fun if the course were empty and you could have the time to take a half hour or so trying various putting routes on that hole to various pins on either side of the center bunker from the opposite side. 

There is nothing pedestrian about Bayside in that everytime you play it, you encounter a shot that looks daunting due to all the topography and slopes, angles etc., and at least for me, I've left with some fun memories of a shot you have been forced to use your imagination, take a risk, and get a big and happy ending payoff.  Sure, you miss your fair share, but it just seems there are always great golf shot memories made there at Bayside everytime you play there.

[Adam Clayman]

Dick. I was above the bunker. Pin was virtually where we see it in the picture. Yes I putted away from the hole back towards Paul's condo. The ball came off the back kick plate, rolled to the severe slope, turned right and went all the way to kick in range. That was Friday. Yesterday I played the whites. Had 5 birds. 1 trip and 2 dbls for 77. I've been there a lot this year already (1 month). The course is so much fun and on a maintenance budget a fraction of the National average. Btw I made a birdie on 18 from the fairway bunker. I had never birdied the hole before. After some Larry's smoked brisket it was an epic day @ Bayside.

[Adam Clayman]

Mark Saltzman- The south wind is dominate, but it switches so frequently, it's hard to say how often the course plays in it. I do disagree with you about 10. There's lots going on there. From the varied fairway lies, to the fallaway infinity green (infinity if there were no trees beyond). Especially with a south wind, there's a temptation to drive the green. Maybe not from where you played it, but, I cannot comment on that because I wouldn't ever go back there to the black tees. I think the hole is great. But as we say, it's only an opinion.

As for the trees on 15, they aren't the problem. I too felt the same as you do about them, until I figured out that it was my fault for not figuring out how to to play the hole. (and there's more than one way)  There are a bunch of volunteer cottonwoods that should be coming down soon all over the course. But, As I said, Elton is on a budget that's tighter than a well digger's ass. (Think less than 300k)

As I see Bayside, there are only two things wrong with it. The 9th hole. And, the routing on the back. The 9th, they could've done something about, the routing on the back, imo, is the price we pay for getting the natural holes that do exist. Ok Ok a 3rd flaw. Jason built the houses on 18 40' too close to the hole's corridor, but that's it.

JNC, Friday is not the best day to play Bayside. During peak times, due to "play the West" Thursday Friday and Saturday are not optimal. i.e. We played in over 5 hours there yesterday and we normally could play twice in that much time.

[Mark Saltzman]

Adam,

Re 10: I didn't notice the infinity green.  I will take your word for it regarding the variability of the lies.  My ball landed center of the fairway and caromed all the way to the right rough, leaving a mostly blind 65 yard shot.  I presumed (I guess incorrectly) that basically all tee shots would end up in this same area.

Could you elaborate re number 15.  How is one supposed to play it?  Would laying further back, up the hill, provide a better view of the green?  I have attached pictures of the lay-up and approach for those that are unfamiliar with the hole.

What was the problem with number 9?

And I fully agree about the houses on 18.  They were just close enough to make me very uncomfortable, especially since the hole is designed for a tee shot up the right.

Hole 15: View from 300 yards



Hole 15: View from 90 yards - Pin is directly behind the tree

[Mark Saltzman]

A couple more pictures.

Hole 6: There is a huge difference between the blues and blacks on this hole.  From the blues, everything is laid out in front of you, though the hole is still difficult at 430 yards (I think).  From the blacks, the hole is totally blind, playing 460 yards.  The black tees are back and way to the right of the blues.

View from the Blue Tees:



View from the Black Tees:





Adam and I were discussing the houses on 18.  I have attached a picture.  The line is either over or right of the right-side bunkers.  Despite Adam's birdie from the left-side bunkers, they are certainly not the place to be.  Notice the substantial right-to-left slope of the fairway allowing tee shots pushed a bit too far to the right to kick to the middle of the fairway. (Also notice the houses, just a bit too close for comfort)

18 Tee:



18 From Behind:

[Adam Clayman]

Mark, 15 can be played by laying back to the right side of the fairway nearest the 150 yard pole. Or, by trying to get to the bottom of the hill, where you have enough loft on a club to carry the trees. The trick, when playing to the bottom of the hill, is to stay right of center because the left rough is too brutal to extract a high soft shot, to this small (in playable size) green. It took me a long time to figure all that out, and for at least a year, I would always try to play to the 150 mark.

The problem with the 9th, is that it just didn't turn out the way the archies wanted it to. For one, the best angle is from the left, and there's just very little fairway there. But the real problem is that the green, won't hold even the highest shot, unless you can put some pro sauce on it. The reason it won't hold, is the downslope coming off the fronting bunkers.

The 6th is actually a par 4 from the Black tees and a par 5 from the others.

The front gets a lot of heat from really good players for being too easy. But, it gets really high praise from us gca geek-o-philes.

The whole course is fun and in a beautiful setting. Does it ever need be more than that?

[RJ_Daley]

Dick. I was above the bunker. Pin was virtually where we see it in the picture. Yes I putted away from the hole back towards Paul's condo. The ball came off the back kick plate, rolled to the severe slope, turned right and went all the way to kick in range. That was Friday. Yesterday I played the whites. Had 5 birds. 1 trip and 2 dbls for 77. I've been there a lot this year already (1 month). The course is so much fun and on a maintenance budget a fraction of the National average. Btw I made a birdie on 18 from the fairway bunker. I had never birdied the hole before. After some Larry's smoked brisket it was an epic day @ Bayside.

Oh cut it out, you're killing me....

[Adam Clayman]

Compare to Wildhorse? 

Dan, I'm sorry I didn't get to this sooner.

It's pretty hard to compare the two. They are really different. To me, WH is on the less severe site which makes it a much more cohesive design. There's not a weak hole on the course in G-Burg and is very walkable.

I'd sum it up this way. WH is more about pure golf and Bayside is more about fun. Bayside has the lake, and is such a beautiful setting. Not that WH is not fun or pretty, it's just less so, now that the fescue collars are gone and the creative shotmaker has to factor that into each approach.

The maintenance at WH is also a better meld. Their low mow Bluegrass fairways are top notch and Josh's greens are the some of the best around. Elton is good, but with his budget he can't do what Josh does.

[Mark Saltzman]

Mark, 15 can be played by laying back to the right side of the fairway nearest the 150 yard pole. Or, by trying to get to the bottom of the hill, where you have enough loft on a club to carry the trees. The trick, when playing to the bottom of the hill, is to stay right of center because the left rough is too brutal to extract a high soft shot, to this small (in playable size) green. It took me a long time to figure all that out, and for at least a year, I would always try to play to the 150 mark.

Adam, I was down at the bottom where I could get over the tree no problem (I had 90 yards in), but I still feel that the tree adds nothing to the hole (I think it actually detracts from it) and is out of character with the whole golf course. 

[RJ_Daley]

I agree with Adam's description of the more cohesive nature of WH over Bayside.  If the Bunkerhill Boys, had been able to continue to layout and construct the whole 18 on the land and continuation of the land on the front 9, which is still across prairie overland, and been able to maintain the theme of a great walk across that prairie, I think Bayside would be an unquestionable pick for a slot somewhere in the 'best modern' category that WH had occupied for years.  One can sling their bag over the shoulder and have a great walk across more dramatic elevation contoured property on front side Bayside than WH, yet the walk is simple and is really 'across and upon' prairieland.  WH continues in the cohesive way, that walk across the prairie throughout all 18 holes.

But, the backside of Bayside is not easily walked, and is really a series or collection of holes that play from ridge and promintory tee and green sites across some deep ravines and baranca carries.  The fairways run the ridges mostly.  It is point to point golf with some really fun approaches due to their set up to offer many options to attempt the approach shots using internal contours and side slopes and green surround features.  But, the two par 5s are virtually must play 3 shotters, where even shortish approaches must be deft and precise, and the consequences of missing greens are very severe with high possibility of lost ball.  I don't care for that aspect that not only is there a typical and reasonable stroke penalty for a missed green but where one can continue to play on, but the annoying probability of a slowdown of pace of play with monkeying around to conduct a search for the ball that just misses, and the further need to resort to the other playing options under the rules, so to speak, or agree to abandon the rules for expedience sake.  

There is plenty of fun to be had, but the course is just too schizophrenic from front to back 9s to be mentioned in the GCA quality of design discussion of the other very great courses out there on the prairie and sand hills based on that lack of cohesiveness.  it is just fun for its own sake and well worth a side trip to play, yet in a category by itself, IMHO.

[Adam Clayman]

Here is a picture of an added teeing ground on the 9th hole. It's to the north of the current Blue teeing ground, just a few feet above (4-5ft.). It doesn't alter the yardage, but it does afford a view of the fairway. Which the lower box obscures, just slightly.  Tha's Elton's shop dog. A lumbering lovable blonde Lab, of limited intel, with an abundance of unbridled exuberance. The Dogs name is Vegas, which is where Elton s headed tomorrow.

 

[Jason Hines]

Adam,

Are you trying to tease us?  Where's the photo?

Jason

[John Kavanaugh]

I have 6 guys staying and playing June 28th on the way to the 5th major. Everyone is welcome to join us. Our plans are to play till dark then drink to light. We have two four bedroom cottages, plenty of room.

[Sam Morrow]

I have 6 guys staying and playing June 28th on the way to the 5th major. Everyone is welcome to join us. Our plans are to play till dark then drink to light. We have two four bedroom cottages, plenty of room.

You guys get worn-out there cause Cory and I have an opening round match against one of your groups.

[Adam Clayman]

Apologies for the pic quality.  The first pic should be the current 9th tee. Loooking closely, you can see how the dune in the foreground semi-blocks the view of the fairway.



Here is the view from the new teeing ground. While the pic doesn't necessarily do justice to it, the difference is amazing.



Jason, Vegas is standing on it. It's Elton's picture, I thought it had the hole in the background. I realized it didn't after I posted it, so, I went out and took these with my phone.

[Jaeger Kovich]

The wall of trees is brutal, but not as bad as the one on #3

[Rob Curtiss]

Just found this thread.

Bayside looks awesome. Definitely going to play prior to the 5th Major this year.

Just thought someone looking for a place to play on the way to the 5th Major might want to look at this thread .