[Paul Jones]

After reading another thread on Royal Melbourne, I have decided to make the trip to Australia next year and looking for a little help in the planning...

I am looking at playing Royal Melbourne (East & West) and Kingston Heath since they are both real close.  If I only stay a week, I will probably just hang out in and around Melbourne - other suggestions for courses and places to stay - best time of year?

If I decide to stay 2 weeks, how hard is it to make it to Barnbougle Dunes, New South Wales, Royal Adelaide and/or New Zealand to play Cape Kidnappers and Kauri Cliffs.

Thanks,
Paul

[Scott Warren]

Not difficult at all to do NZ and Aus in two weeks, Paul. If you're coming from the US to Aus you fly over NZ, so it's easy enough to fly US > Auckland, play your NZ golf, fly from Auckland or Wellington to Melbourne/Sydney.

If time is tight and you really want to see Barnbougle, there is a mob that flies to a runway adjacent to the 2nd fairway at Barny from Moorabbin Airport, next to Kingston Heath. Cost is about $400 return for the flight.

Best time of year? We chose March for this year's GCA Boomerang on advice of those in Melbourne and the courses were all in great condition and the days were great - 22C (74 fahrenheit) or so.

The 2012 GCA Boomerang is still being planned, but the plan is to hold it at Paraparaumu Beach GC outside Wellington, so it could pay to tie your trip in with that.

For value I'd also recommend the 1hr drive out of Melbourne to play Doak and Clayton's St Andrews Beach. Not far short of Barny Dunes in quality and a mere $55 midweek to play.

[Ben Jarvis]

Paul,

Although must-play's, don't restrict yourself to just Royal Melbourne and Kingston Heath. I'd highly recommend Victoria Golf Club (they also have a great play & stay package at a very affordable price).

You're bound to miss a few courses worth seeing so i'll try and limit my suggestion to a handful in and around Melbourne.

Sandbelt
Royal Melbourne West
Royal Melbourne East
Kingston Heath
Victoria

Mornington Peninsula
National - Moonah
National - Old
St. Andrews Beach
Moonah Links - Legends
The Dunes
Portsea

Bellarine Peninsula
13th Beach - Beach
Barwon Heads

Perhaps more than a handful, but i neglected quite a few that would certainly be worthwhile.

[James Bennett]

Paul

your must see's are

Melbourne
RM West
RM East
Kingston Heath

Sydney
NSW
The Lakes
Sydney Harbour and Sydney Beaches

Tasmania
Barnbougle Dunes
Lost Farm

After that, take your pick at what your time allows.  Just remember, Australia is the same size as the USA, so be careful to recognise transport issues.  I do not expect you will make it to Adelaide, but if you do, let us know.

Regarding NZ, the travel between venues can be significant.  If you do NZ, allow for this.

The 2012 Boomerang is a good idea.

And, if you are coming from the USA (I can't recall if you are from the UK or USA Paul) then you can now fly direct to Sydney from Dallas/Fort Worth in about 15 hours - a long flight, but it is only the one flight.

If you are coming from the UK, you might think of flying via the USA on one leg (perhaps a round-world ticket) which will give you another chance to see something, albeit at the expense of time down under.

James B

[Paul Jones]

Thanks for the information.  I think I am just going to stay in Melbourne and play the following:

Royal Melbourne (East and West)
Kingston Heath
Victoria

They are all real close to each other.  I live in Louisiana and was looking at flying to California -> Melbourne.

I was glad to see that there is a Marriott so I can stay using my Marriott points.  I am planning on departing on a Sunday (arriving in Melbourne on Tuesday  ) then departing on the following Sunday.

Including Sydney, Tasmania or New Zealand just seems to be a little too much.

Thanks,
Paul

[Scott Warren]

I'm going to be brave and suggest RM East could well be skipped in favour of another course on the Sandbelt or another lap of the West.

RM charges the same visitor fee for both courses, so there's really nothing to lose playing West twice and just having a walk around the East.

[Ben Jarvis]

Very brave Scott!!

I'd suggest playing RM East over other sandbelt courses, purely for holes 1, 2, 3, 4, 16, 17 and 18 (Composite holes). If i had to replace RM East, I'd consider Commonwealth, Metropolitan or Yarra Yarra (one of the more enjoyable tracks IMO).

[Scott Warren]

Ben,

I agree with you that 1, 2, 4, 16 and 18 are wonderful holes on the East, but for the same money you get the wonderful 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9, 10, 12, 15, 16, 17 and 18 on the West!

Or if Paul skipped the East and went down for a daytrip to St Andrews Beach he'd play a better course IMO, pick up some variety and have $200 left over even after paying for petrol!

[Mike_Clayton]

Play the West as many times as possible.

[Ben Jarvis]

Scott, you are correct. St. Andrews Beach would definitely be worth the trip.

As for Mr Clayton's comment, i could play or walk the West every day for the remainder of my life and never tire of it...it's that good!

[Mark Chaplin]

Stay as long as you can, it's a long way to go and you may suffer jet lag. RM is one of the world's great clubs, spend as much time there as you can afford. RME is a very fine golf course, however if it is the same price as RMW there is only one winner. Kingston Heath is wonderful possibly the best use I've ever seen of a pretty flat piece of land - I could play this course everyday......please! Metropolitan is another very fine golf course with great conditioning.

The Sandbelt is a fair distance from the CBD you maybe short changing yourself using Marriot point if you stay in the city.

Melbourne is currently expensive for Brits and Americans.

If you go to NZ CK and KC are very expensive, instead spend a couple of days at Paraparaumu Beach, great course and a nice little town to spend a night in.

[Bill Brightly]

Thanks for the information.  I think I am just going to stay in Melbourne and play the following:

Royal Melbourne (East and West)
Kingston Heath
Victoria

They are all real close to each other.  I live in Louisiana and was looking at flying to California -> Melbourne.

I was glad to see that there is a Marriott so I can stay using my Marriott points.  I am planning on departing on a Sunday (arriving in Melbourne on Tuesday  ) then departing on the following Sunday.

Including Sydney, Tasmania or New Zealand just seems to be a little too much.

Thanks,
Paul

Paul, I just made a similar trip (from NJ) including Cape Kidnappers. I would say you can save New Zealand until you have more time, but you will be kicking yourself if you don't add 2 or 3 days to your trip to go play 36 each at BD and Lost Farm in Taz, it is such a short hop from Melbourne.

[Mark Bourgeois]

Play the West as many times as possible.

Paul, listen to Mike. This is a man who helped design or has worked on some of the courses on your list, a man you would think has a vested interest to promote his work.

And here he is telling you to play the West again and again and again.

Heed this man!

If you do not focus your efforts on playing RMW as many times as possible you will regret it, maybe not the day you first play it or the day after but soon, and then every day after that for the rest of your life.

Each play will yield more -- and yield more than a first play almost anywhere else...in the world.

Play the West play the West play the West.

The West is like HDTV. Nobody ever says they wished they'd bought a smaller TV.

I have yet to come across anyone who has said they wished they played RMW less.

Play the West play the West play the West.

I have played some of the courses listed but from the get-go have focused on playing RM as many times as possible. I have turned away members suggesting the East as a change of pace and I have held up other plans in hopes of last-minute opportunities to play there.

And every time the West gets better than the previous round.

Play the West play the West play the West.

And here's the thing: if I could trade my rounds at all those other places for rounds on RMW, I would do so.

And for a round on the Composite, I would trade at least 3 rounds elsewhere.

Play the West play the West play the West.

So that would be my only modification to Mike's advice: if you can play the Composite instead of the West, do it.

But otherwise: play the West play the West play the West.

[Kevin Pallier]

Play the West as many times as possible.

A few years ago that wouldn't have been the case - nowadays that may be different

Seriously - I think James B has given a pretty good run down on the highlights.

Have you been to the links of GB&I before ? If not I'd suggest the Tas courses of BD & LF.

[David Kelly]

Thanks for the information.  I think I am just going to stay in Melbourne and play the following:

Royal Melbourne (East and West)
Kingston Heath
Victoria

They are all real close to each other.  I live in Louisiana and was looking at flying to California -> Melbourne.

I was glad to see that there is a Marriott so I can stay using my Marriott points.  I am planning on departing on a Sunday (arriving in Melbourne on Tuesday  ) then departing on the following Sunday.

Including Sydney, Tasmania or New Zealand just seems to be a little too much.

That's a lot of travel time for comparatively little time on the ground in Australia.  I think you would do yourself a disservice by skipping Barnbougle and Lost Farm.  The flight from Melbourne to Launceston is the same length of time as from New Orleans to Houston - about an hour.

[Mike_Clayton]

Mark,

Good advice -but i am not sure how many times they will let you play it.
If I was only coming once I would spend a day walking as many sandbelt courses as I could.
Don Placek and I once did Metropolitan,Commonwealth,Yarra Yarra,Woodlands and Victoria in a day. Peninsula is worth a look before some of the ones Don walked.
2-3 days at Barnbougle is a must.

My advice would be to take a day to walk as many as possible just to get a sense of the whole of the sandbelt, play the West as much as they allow and do Barnbougle.

[David_Elvins]

Paul,

Coming to Melbourne and not going to Barnbougle Dunes would be very disappointing.  It is not a worse course than Royal Melbourne and potentially the best course in the world. 

Lost Farm is also very good and many will make an argument that it is better than Kingston Heath. 

Barnbougle Dunes, Kingston Heath, and Royal Melbourne West (or composite) are must plays when coming to Australia.  NO EXCEPTIONS.  NSW only slightly behind. 

Then, depending on time, you will also have fun playing Victoria, Comonwealth, Woodlands, Peninsula, National Moonah, National Old, Lost Farm, Leongatha, etc. 

[Mike_Clayton]

Dave,

Leongatha??!!
There are quite a few good holes there - but like all of Vern Morcom's courses there are a number of doglegs that are complete disasters.
Every hole there that goes in a straight line -1,4,7,8,9,10,11,12,14,16 - is a good one and almost every one that turns is poor - at best.
Maybe only 13 is fine.
With a better routing it would have been really good.

[Paul Jones]

Can Barnbougle Dunes be done on a day trip?  What are my options for transportation to Tasmania?

Thanks for the input.  I think I am going to Play Royal Melbourne (West Twice, East Once), Kinston Heath, Victoria and that would leave a day open to play Barnbougle Dunes?  If not, I can scratch Victoria and if I can make Barnbougle Dunes in a day and a half.

[David_Elvins]

Mike,

You have been so prolific at straightening out holes in the last 20 years that Leongatha is probably the best preserved example of the Morcom doglegs, making it an essential course for any international visitor wanting to experience Morcom's genius.  

You undersell some of the dogleg holes too.  5, 6, and 15 have outstanding green complexes.  

And the 3rd, which you left off your list, is a world class short par 4.  The narrow, highly contoured green causes havoc for anyone who gets slightly out of position.  

Anyway, getting a bit off topic.  

How significant is The Lakes on the world stage as an example of Australian architecture?

[David_Elvins]

Can Barnbougle Dunes be done on a day trip?  What are my options for transportation to Tasmania?

Thanks for the input.  I think I am going to Play Royal Melbourne (West Twice, East Once), Kinston Heath, Victoria and that would leave a day open to play Barnbougle Dunes?  If not, I can scratch Victoria and if I can make Barnbougle Dunes in a day and a half.

Yes,  Barnbougle can be done in a day.  Flight from Melbourne to Launceston (1 hour) and hire a car or shuttle transfer (1.5 hours).  Also chartered flights from sandbelt straight to course. 

But two days and two nights would be better.  36 holes and Barnbougle and 36 at Lost Farm. 

[Scott Warren]

Paul,

Matt Mollica and Brett Morrissy are the blokes to speak to about Barnbougle day-trips. They have both done a heap of them.

Your best option is the charter flights from Moorabbin that land next to the 2nd fairway at Barnbougle Dunes.

Pricey, but when you factor in the cost/time of getting from Melbourne to the airport, flying to Launceston, renting a car and driving the hour to Barnbougle and repeating all that in reverse to get back, it makes a fair bit of sense.

[Ben Jarvis]

Paul,

Yes, Barnbougle Dunes can be done in one day. My suggestion though is to spend a day and a half there, playing both Barnbougle Dunes and Lost Farm. Don't scratch Victoria - play 36 holes in one day if time permits (it's light until after 8pm between October and April).

As for transportation, you are best to fly from Melbourne (Tullumarine) to Launceston, followed by a 1 hour drive. That is, unless you fly direct to Barnbougle from Moorabbin Airport (next to Kingston Heath) - albeit more expensive.

[Mike_Clayton]

Dave,

I agree that Morcom did fantastic greens and bunkers - and he did many of them at the end of poor holes. The pitch to the 18th at Leongatha is a really fun shot - but you have to hit it 430 yards (my memory) in two before you are past the trees.
15 at Lenogatha used to be a five iron and a five iron - or a blast with a driver over the trees. It was/is a bad hole with a terrific green.
Is 3 really that good? It is dangerous - but as good as 10 West or 15 at Victoria? It was always a much better hole when the ground was softer i.e not rock hard as it could be when we used to play the 72 hole event there in February.
We have straightened a few doglegs - like 12 South at Peninsula which was a complete shocker - but not as many as we are accused of.
7 South for example - its not straighter for taking out all the trees. Nor is 9 at Rosanna.

I am not sure about The Lakes - I obviously like it and think there is a lot of good work there.If I was going to Sydney it would be the second course to play behind NSW.

[Paul Jones]

I just checked and the flights from Melbourne - Tullumarine are only $140.  For the dates I went to go, so I will definetly add Barnougle Dunes to the TO DO LIST. 

Once again, I appreciate all your help.

I went ahead and booked my flights from Lafayette - Melbourne for March 4 - 11. Each way is 26 Hours  .

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