TPC Sawgrass - What surprised you?

[Bryan Izatt]

Everybody has seen TPC Sawgrass on TV and no doubt formed opinions about it based on that viewing and the Players Championship.  But for those who have played it, what surprised you about it given any preconceptions that you had before going there.

I'll offer two things.  One was the constant referral on TV to the back right pin position on the 9th hole and how shots that get back there will feed down into the bowl where the pin is placed.  Well, that bowl is the most subtle one you will ever see.  So subtle that in February, when the greens aren't running at 13, but maybe 9, the ball just does not feed down there; you actually have to putt it down.  The bowl may be something like 6 inches deep.

The second thing was the tee shot on 15.  I've played the course a few times over the last 20 years, but I was surprised about how extremely the trees hang in on both sides off the tee.  It is claustrophobic.  This must be the most extreme chute drive ever and demands a small fade to boot.

What else have you guys got?

[Brett_Morrissy]

one GCA mate said he would never return - far better ways to spend your money, but I believe glad he played it once.

Bryan - would you jump at the chance to return to play TPC Sawgrass -  it is in Florida right?

is it up in the range of $400+?

[Brett Morris]

TV takes alot out of the contours, but the 13th green surprised me with how much is there when I was there in February.

[PCCraig]

It's been a long time, but I was surprised how big the 17th green is. When I played it we didn't play from the back tees, so it was only an easy PW to a soft green. Obviously when the greens get hard, it's windy, and you're holding an 8 iron on the back tees it's probably a different story.

[Steve Kline]

The tee shot on 18. Sure it looks hard on TV, but I remember getting on the tee and seeing about 5 yards of fairway. It looks like there is absolutely nothing to hit to.

[Rory Connaughton]

I did not enjoy the experience.  Our caddy behaved as though he was a tour guide at Universal Orlando and did not stop speaking for the 5 hr. 30 min. round. Unfortunately, he wasn't a particularly good caddy (though assured our annoyed group that TPC caddies are the top 1% of caddies in the world).  The pre round round up makes one feel as though you are on a runway taxing for take off. Totally over produced.  I found that I enjoyed the long par 4's far more than the shorter holes especially 4 and 15.  I did like the par 5's but would have preferred a little more room on the approach to 9.  It is a stern test but if I was returning to Jacksonville, I would much rather visit Pablo Creek.

[John Foley]

How tough a driving course it is. I you have a case of the wolds it is a very very long day.

How tough the rest of the par 3's other than 17 are.

[Dean Stokes]

I would also prefer pablo from an experience and relaxation propsect.....However if you take a way the caddies and the whole 'production' thing I think it is a very good, fun test of golf. I always think a fair litmus test for a course being good is if you can remember all the holes when you leave - check.

Did you have to hit every kind of shot - check. Did you hit all clubs - check. Did you have to think off the tee instead of just bomb driver - check. Were the green complexes challenging and thoughtful - check.

Ok it may be contrived out of swamp and earth may have been moved....so what. There may be too many water hazards for some peoples likings....so what. Try to forget the price and go there to play golf with a scorecard in your hand and tell me you don't have a good time.

[Dean Stokes]

How tough a driving course it is. I you have a case of the wolds it is a very very long day.

How tough the rest of the par 3's other than 17 are.

John is no more of a harder driving course than I played anywhere else. There is a bailout on every hole albeit you will be in trees on some!

Played from the correct tees there should be nothing too unmanageable on the other par 3's.

[Cory Lewis]

I was surprised by how severe the 4th green was.  A great short par 4, you have to be very careful where you lay up to give you the perfect distance into a very tough green.

[Ivan Lipko]

A very bad condition of the course - played it last February!

[Andy Troeger]

Threads like these are interesting--so much comes down to the day you play when its a one-time experience. I didn't have any of the experience issues, my forecaddie was fine (not memorable which I consider a good thing), the course was in good shape, etc.

Ironically, I don't remember thinking the 15th was overly narrow, and I was surprised at how small the 17th green looked from the tee. The 18th is narrow if you want to hit the fairway, but you can miss as far right as you want and have a reasonable shot at bogey--its a matter of expectation I think. Most island greens, while still islands, have been built to be far more forgiving. Comparatively, this one is not. I've heard others say it looked bigger than expected, so I think expectations might matter more than the actual green's size there.

The golf course is very playable for a decent golfer though IMO with the exception of #17. Every other hole has a bailout and its usually not that hard to get to. You can make big numbers if you get agressive or miss in the wrong places, but I think strategically that its a gem and one of Pete's best. From an execution standpoint, it forces you to make decisions and execute them properly, or at least miss them in the proper places.

[Bryan Izatt]

one GCA mate said he would never return - far better ways to spend your money, but I believe glad he played it once.

Bryan - would you jump at the chance to return to play TPC Sawgrass -  it is in Florida right?

is it up in the range of $400+?

Yes, it's in north Florida.  The weather can be a bit dodgy in mid winter.  I think I paid around $200 in late January.  If you want to go a couple of weeks from now you can get it for $375.  Surprisingly you can get tee times through golfnow.com.  Back twenty years ago the only way to access it was to stay at the Marriott on the property. It's much more accessible now.  How times have changed.

Yes, I would go back - but, not when it's $375.  It is a great challenging golf course.

[Bryan Izatt]

Also surprising was that the fairways and rough on the course course were not overseeded in the winter months.  Surprising but not a bad thing.  Also generally how the look of the place has changed in the last 20 years.  It used to be a lot more rough looking.  Now it is more manicured.  Saw on the Golf Channel a little piece on the guy who shot 66 on the 17th hole.  It was amazing to see how rough the area to the left of the pond and the pathway to the green were.

Regarding the other comments about bail out areas, I guess I've missed where those are.  It is very easy to spend a lot of time in the trees or water there.  Thankfully there are usually recovery shots that can be played from the trees.  That is a good thing about the design.

Also surprising is that the whole area looks nothing like a swamp at all.  An amazing engineering feat.

[Jason Topp]

I was surprised at how much I liked the course.  Fairway widths vary considerably - some are quite wide while others are very narrow.  The par fives are about as good as it gets - posing interesting choices on 2nd shots.  Very solid par threes.

I did not find the course to be overly difficult - at least from 6500 yards.   I like my chances of shooting a good score there over shooting a good score at the Plantation Course by a wide margin. 

The biggest detraction for me was that the course seemed almost mathmatical in its layout rather than in any way natural feeling. 

• There is a very specific formula to the course - similar 1st and 10th holes, somewhat similar 2nd and 11th, 12 and 4 have similarities with an early par three in the middle, then a couple of tough draw/fade or fade/draw par fours and a finish to each side that includes a 5, 3 and 4, although the order varies between the nines.
  
• The angles also seem to come out of a math book rather than from nature - 22-1/2 degrees is in play throughout the course.
  
• The par threes have similarities to Raynor's templates.
  

These aspects of the course were probably masked somewhat in its original state - which I understand was presented in a more wild and wooly manner. 


I had the same reaction to other Dye big name courses such as PGA West and the Ocean Course. 

[BigEdSC]

After being a member of Yeamans Hall for 20 years, I got transferred to Jacksonville two years ago.  I inquired to a friend of mine that was living in Jax on the best deal in town, and, surprisingly, he told me joining the Valley course out at TPC.  It's $2500 a year, and they are running a special for new people to join.  If you recruit someone to join, you and your recruit both get $500 gift cards.  They also give you the option of a couple of playing passes to play the stadium, or tack on an extra month of membership.

As far as the Stadium course, I might of played it a half dozen times since I've been a member.  Our club championship is one day on the Valley, and the last day on the Stadium.  Designwise, there are a lot of sharp edges as far as the difference of a good shot and a not so good shot.  Of the times I've played 17, I have yet to hit one in the water.  With the backboard in the middle of the green, the green holds pretty well, but I haven't played the course when it's hard as a brick.  I think that 18 is a bear.  Standing on the tee, the hole forces you to hit a draw, and the little voice in your head keeps telling you to don't over cook the drive and hit it in the water.  Hit it through the fairway, and you still have major problems with the trees and lie.

It is a tough test of golf.  I've made a few birdies, but made a few "what was that."  I think if you played it every day, it woudl really teach you the value of patience, and concentrate on the shot on hand.

[Trey Kemp]

The finish (holes 16, 17 & 18) was even better than I thought it would be.  Overall the course was tough, but not the hardest course I have ever played.

[Mike_Trenham]

I was surpised by how it strategic the tee shots are.  Wide fairways that play narrow if you want a workable second shot. 

Our caddie was terrible too always a canned story about this guy or that TPC championship also complained that we insisted on walking. 

[David Kelly]

I obviously knew how hard #18 was going into the round but I wasn't prepared for just how hard.

Oh, and I was also surprised by how crappy the Ponte Vedra hotel was. 

[Andy Troeger]

Bryan,
When I say bail-out areas I'm not necessarily meaning that its a free pass to an easy recovery. It might be a bunker, or even the trees or rough, but I found that unless you were in the water the opportunities for recovery were there. You might need to play intelligently or not shoot right at every pin, but under normal conditions the bunkers and rough were very playable. On #16 you can bail left and/or short and have a reasonable chance for an up and down. On #18 you can hit it right and play for five. On #13 you can play to the right...etc.

The ironic thing is that I played terrible golf on my visit. I didn't break 90 and made some big numbers, but it was player error in almost every case. I felt on every hole that I had a chance with reasonable execution, I just didn't have it that day. I still found my ball most of the time and had recovery opportunities from some places the pros likely don't see too often.

[noonan]

If your ball striking is off...you will have some high numbers.

If you can hit the fairway, you will have a much easier time scoring.

Overall, I enjoyed the experience..the course is playable as stated above from the correct tees......I was surprised that it was that playable...

We played 2 rounds on the stadium and one on the Valley with 3 nights stay for $500 each between Thanksgiving and Christmas.....I thought it was a bargain considering we stayed in the Marriott...