News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Jim McCann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak & Askernish
« Reply #25 on: May 09, 2011, 02:43:17 PM »
Melvyn,

I flew that day from Glasgow to Benbecula with two of the three golfers who played in the inaugural
three ball at the official opening - Kenny Dalglish (the Club's Honorary President) and Ernie Payne (who
stood in for somebody who had won the right to play in the opening group at an auction).

Ernie, who has played EVERY course in Scotland, was completing his quest of playing ALL known Old
Tom Morris courses in the British Isles - but then you know that already as it was you who put him up
to it!!!

If I'm brutally honest, the course was very immature three years ago with some fairways indistinctly laid
out on the closely cropped machair and rabbit holes everywhere (even on the fledgling greens!) but the
brand new wee clubhouse was a real charmer and the people - well, let's just say I'm so glad that I didn't
get the late afternoon flight home but stayed to take in the prizegiving at the ceilidh in the local community
hall that night.

Wonderful place and wonderful people...          

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak & Askernish
« Reply #26 on: May 09, 2011, 11:30:01 PM »
Adam,

The "goal" of us all at Askernish is the same as when we started. That is, to fully utilise a fantastic natural asset of the island to bring people to the island which will create employment and help the dwindling economy of the community. This is what we aspired to do and nothing has changed.

What has happened of course is that we didnt realise exactly what a tremendous asset we had. The half dozen of us that have been involved since the start are all golf nuts who saw the potential in the land but even when we had completed the initial layout, which we all thought was amazing we didnt actually think that it was "world class.' Even when visiting journalists , golf writers etc came to see us and praised the course I thought they were only patronising us as they realised the tremendous amount of hours etc that we had all put in to the project. The first real hint that everybody might be serious was when Mike Keiser seemed taken aback at the beauty and routing. We thought that Mike has probably seen every course worth seeing and if he was ecstatic then maybe we truly did have a hidden gem on our hands. The big test for us was when Tom Doak came out and played eighteen holes with Donald and myself - and hardly spoke a word about the course! We were used to people exclaiming loudly WOW when they got to the seventh tee but Tom - nothing! With bated breath we asked him back in the clubhouse what he thought of the course and he told us "why would anybody want to change any of this? He then berated us for concentrating on selling the history of the course rather than the actual course itself. It was only then that we really started to believe all the so called "hype.' Tom being Tom of course was being straight to the point and in this case absolutely correct .

As Tom has pointed out I defy anybody to come here and point out what parts of the course ( very very few) Eric Iverson created with his mini - digger and what areas god ( that isnt Eric) has left us with.

The biggest problem we have is when we go and visit other golf courses - we find them all so boring! The odd exciting hole and maybe three or four in some of the championship courses - we have a stretch of six holes which will equal anything in links golf and the other twelve are only slightly less brilliant. Then again maybe I am a wee bit biased in my reporting!

Never mind studying photos and debating about what Tom has done or hasnt done. Get on a plane , boat or whatever form of travel you prefer and get out here and see it for yourself. Only then can you appreciate what Askernish and its people are all about. Two GCA contributors Jeremy Kinney and Mac Plumart are on their way shortly so read their independent reports and then phone your travel agent!

Ralph, Thank you so much for answering my question(s)

Talk like that and the Island might end up with a new resident.

If I do ever get over to the right side of the pond, I will be sure to see Askernish. As I intimated in my post, the original pictures posted, back when, showed me the type of golf I consider to be ideal. Open and free. A place where one can golf their ball, creating their own fortune, or mis.

Is it year round golf?



  
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Mac Plumart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak & Askernish
« Reply #27 on: May 10, 2011, 03:27:13 PM »
I'll be heading there tomorrow.  God-willing!
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak & Askernish
« Reply #28 on: May 10, 2011, 05:10:52 PM »
I'll be heading there tomorrow.  God-willing!

To paraphrase the priest from Caddyshack, God wouldn't prevent such an occurrence!
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Adam Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak & Askernish
« Reply #29 on: May 10, 2011, 05:12:52 PM »
I just checked the weather forecast and it doesn't look too bad, Mac... I can't wait to hear your reaction.
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Ralph Thompson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak & Askernish
« Reply #30 on: May 10, 2011, 05:16:03 PM »
Adam

One of the great things about Askernbish is the ability to play all year round. We played every weekend apart from one ( 65mph gale)right through the winter months.

The unique nature of the machair soil means that no irrigation is necessary and it never floods. I believe we should be marketing off season  golf packages here when most mainland courses are playing winter greens and as you are likely to get a good weather day in January as you are in July.

Outwith the tourist season we could also negotiate cheaper hotel deals as they are nearly completely empty from November to March.

Its something we are definitely hoping to explore and market.

James Boon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak & Askernish
« Reply #31 on: May 12, 2011, 09:39:28 AM »
PS James would also welcome a comment on your experience of travelling to the island. If I remember correctly you had your Lady wife with you, so perhaps those with families may feel more inclined to take them as the journey is not that daunting.  

I am not sure about the overland / ferry route; the one time I looked into it, it looked very long and without many possible golf stopovers, but I imagine that whole west coast is wonderfully scenic similar to the drive around to Machrihanish, with even less in the way of settlements.

I have not been able to get my wife up to Askernish yet.  She does not care much about golf at all, but she loves the outdoors and she loves to meet authentic people, so I think South Uist would be just the place for her.  She has some Scottish roots so she is probably predisposed to be comfortable there, though I doubt that her grandfather [a miner from Motherwell] ever got up to South Uist.

Melvyn,

My trip to Askernish was not just for golf, but about a 10 day "get away from it all" trip with my wife.

We stopped overnight at Fort William before getting the ferry from Skye over to Harris. This meant we got to see Glen Coe and Eilean Donan Castle on the way, but not the Cuillins as the weather was miserable through there. We stayed in a delightful restored blackhouse at Gearrannan on Lewis. Some really rough weather for a day or two didn't matter as we were warm and chilled out in the cottage. The countryside was spectacular in a very remote sense but some of the beaches on the west coast where the most beautiful I'd ever seen! We also went to see the amazing ancient stone circle at Callanish as well as a stunning broch at Dun Carloway. Didn't get to play golf at Stornoway though... After several days thoroughly relaxing we headed down to Benbecula that sits between north and south Uist. Again, plenty of chilling out but also getting to experience the great outdoors. We contacted a guide who took us to all the best wildlife spots, so we got to see red deer, otter and every species of bird of prey on the island including the sea eagle and golden eagle. Stunning!

The afternoon that I joined Ralph for a round at Askernish was so calm the sea was like a mill pond and the views south to Barra were amazing. The only real downer for the whole trip was the return ferry journey. This was mid October and the crossing was a real rough one (I'd have happily swapped with the previous days weather!), but I know that on a good day the ferry through the Sound of Mull is an amazing journey.

The plan for our return journey is a shorter trip but this time we will fly into Barra where the plane lands on the beach!

Anyone wanting to make the journey for the golf at Askernish really should do so, and its certainly possible to fly with the packages mentioned, but that really would mean missing out on the full experience of the countryside of Scotland. So Tom, I expect your wife would love a trip there if you take a little extra time travelling.

Cheers,

James
« Last Edit: May 12, 2011, 04:40:06 PM by James Boon »
2023 Highlights: Hollinwell, Brora, Parkstone, Cavendish, Hallamshire, Sandmoor, Moortown, Elie, Crail, St Andrews (Himalayas & Eden), Chantilly, M, Hardelot Les Pins

"It celebrates the unadulterated pleasure of being in a dialogue with nature while knocking a ball round on foot." Richard Pennell

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak & Askernish
« Reply #32 on: May 12, 2011, 05:26:48 PM »
A question for Tom Doak, James Boon or anyone else who cares to answer:

How would you compare Askernish to a course like Brora?

Melvyn Morrow

Re: Tom Doak & Askernish
« Reply #33 on: May 12, 2011, 05:46:22 PM »

David

Play it and judge for yourself. Have you read the article in my topic 'The Crossing of the 'Minch' is the rub (Nothing Ever Changes)' which also talks about Machrie, Machrihanish and Askernish from 1903 ans seems to rate Askernish rathe well. But the proof is always in the playing

Melvyn

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak & Askernish
« Reply #34 on: May 12, 2011, 05:50:11 PM »
Mr. Spode -

Some day I hope to do so. In the meantime, I would like others, who have visited & played both courses, to offer their opinions and thoughts.

DT

Melvyn Morrow

Re: Tom Doak & Askernish
« Reply #35 on: May 13, 2011, 05:52:31 AM »


Mr. Spode -    ???

So much for showing you some courtesy David

 Melvyn


Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Tom Doak & Askernish
« Reply #36 on: May 13, 2011, 07:20:38 AM »
David T:

Comparing Askernish to Brora?  A good question.  I'd never really thought to compare the two.  Here goes:

1.  Askernish is two orders of magnitude more rugged.  It's not quite as wrinkly as the old course at Ballyliffin, but that's the only course I've seen that would compare.

2.  Brora would probably win a match play comparison between the two courses, because it is more uniformly good.  Askernish would probably win every hole between 7 and 12, though, even though that is one of the best stretches of Brora.

3.  The west coast is prettier than the east coast.  The view from the 8th tee at Askernish is hard to beat.

4.  Rabbits vs. cows.  Both can be bothersome.  You decide.

5.  Askernish has a maintenance crew of two men.  Brora has the luxury of four, I would guess.  That will make a significant difference in the normal level of conditioning.

6.  I think Askernish is the more challenging of the two for the better player, though the better player might not accept some of the challenges!

7.  My only issue with Brora is that good players might have to lay up off the tee on some of the outward holes.  There is only one such hole at Askernish.

8.  Brora probably has the better set of par-3 holes.  Askernish has four par-5 holes to Brora's one or two (I can't remember one aside from the 8th hole).

9.  The real strength of both courses are the two-shot holes.

10.  I am quite fond of both, but only one of the two clubs has seen fit to make me an honorary member!

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak & Askernish
« Reply #37 on: May 13, 2011, 07:42:59 AM »
Tom D. -

Thank you for your thorough & thoughtful analysis.

DT

Mac Plumart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak & Askernish
« Reply #38 on: May 15, 2011, 07:37:26 PM »
I am back from Scotland and have some thoughts on Askernish.  As an FYI, I played one round with modern clubs and one with 1930's era hickories.  The course was very challenging with the modern clubs, but still very playable and fun with the hickories.

The course reminded me a bit of Maidstone in a few ways.  The most striking was the fact that the "meat" was in the middle.  Askernish starts out in a farm land type of environment and then makes its way to the dunes.  The dunes holes are quite simply fantastic.  And then back to the farm land after hole 16.

While in the dunes, I think you are exposed to some off-the-charts amazing golf holes.  I'll highlight the ones I found most interesting.

7 is an all world par 4...long, uphill, an ass kicker.  You all have probably seen pictures of it.

9 has one of the most thrilling approach shots I've ever seen.  The hole is a 324 yard par 4, but going straight at the semi-blind pin is, most likely, not the best idea.  If you play up the right side of the fairway/dune, you will have about 150-160 in to a shallow island type of green.  But the island isn't surrounded by water, rather steep dune walls that take you 20 feet or so below the surface of the green.  You can recover from a missed green, but it might not be pretty.  I wouldn't know precisely how the recovery shot would work as I stuck a modern 6 iron and a mashie on the green.   :)

11 is quite simply one of the world's truly great par 3's.  Scenic, interesting, with teeth galore.  It is 214 yards over a dune valley that is maybe 50 feet deep.  The green is set up on a ridge that has the Atlantic Ocean as a back drop. 



The first time I played it with modern clubs the wind was straight in my face at least 25 mph, probably more like 30.  I hit driver and came up a bit short of the green with this pitch. 



Stunning!!  The second time, with hickories, I got to experience what a recovery shot from the wall of that dune was like.  As you might suspect, it was blind!   :D

12 is perhaps one of the best par 5's I've played.  Dual fairways with different risk/reward characteristics.  One fairway is blind off the tee, but the approach is pretty much clear.  While the other is visible off the tee but your second into the green will be blind.  Most likely you'll lay up to the top of a ridge and have a thrilling downhill 3rd shot into a green that slants away from you.  Really fun!

16 is a totally kick ass par 4.  Tee shot plays down into a very wide and undulating valley. 



The green is totally blocked off by Old Tom's Pulpit, which you must go up and over to reach the green. 



(side view of green)


The first time I hit driver then pitching wedge and was a bit long on the blind approach.  The second time I hit a good drive down the pipe and then lobbed a niblick up to the top of the pulpit (which I was told was next to impossible to hold) and I figured it would hit the shelf and roll down to the green...but I guess my ball striking is off-the-charts amazing ( :)) and the ball stuck dead on that shelf and I had to putt it down the hill...not an ideal way to play the hole.

Really fun course with a handle full of stunningly good golf holes.   

Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.