[George Freeman]

Thanks for the photo tour Jud!  I always wanted to put one together for Ravisloe but never got around to it.  I also wasn't sure how well the course would photograph.  Your pictures are good but, as usual, don't capture a lot of the interest of the course.

The first time I played the course was shortly after it first opened as a public.  The place still felt like a private club: it was rarely busy and the conditioning was still country club-like.  It has lost some of that feel over the past couple years and conditioning has taken a little bit of a hit, but all-in-all, I think Ravisloe is one of the most enjoyable public courses in Chicagoland.  I think it's a little over priced based on their rack-rate, but their $38 twilight rate is one of the best deals in Chicago.  

As has been mentioned, the course is not long at all.  However, if I never looked at the scorecard and was asked how long the course was, I would probably overestimate by 200-300 yards.  By no means is it long, but it definitely plays longer than 6,300 yards.  The par 70 obviously has something to do with that.  

I also really like the quirk of the course.  You get back-to-back par 5s and par 3s within the first seven holes, which creates a fun start.  And the course is a fantastic walk.

Some of my favorite holes:

#3 – The second of back-to-back par 5s early in the round.  Plays in the opposite direction as the second.  You play up and over a ridge on the drive, with the landing area blind.  The property line on the right will make most people bail out left, where some mounding complicates your second if you fail to hit the fairway.  If you poke a drive (and the hole isn’t playing into the wind) you might have a shot at getting home in two.  The problem is if you get past the hole at any point, you’re pretty much screwed.  The third has probably my favorite green on the course: severely sloped back to front with all sorts of neat tier-ing and undulation.

#5 – Great short par 4 with plenty of options.  You could conceivably hit anything from driver to 6-7 iron off the tee.  Slight dogleg right with a bunker complex directly in the ideal landing area, with a patch of fairway short and left, and another past it.  I usually hit a hybrid up the left and stay behind the bunker complex, leaving no more than 100-120 yards in.  You could also blast a driver with a fade right down in front of the green.  Another great green complex with a fantastic shelf in the back right.

#8 – Sven already explained the eighth, so there isn’t a whole lot to add.  Great look from the tee: play over the bunkers crossing into the fairway from the right to leave the optimal line into the green (you can’t see the landing area), or play out to the left where there is plenty of fairway but results in a poor angle requiring a shot over the greenside bunkers.

#12 – Love the centerline bunker that really complicates/makes you think on the drive.  Do you challenge the bunker to get a shorter club into the tough green or do you lay back and take your changes with a mid-iron?  I really like the cross bunkers that play with depth perception and the green is a lot of fun.  Miss the green by a yard left and you’re ball will end up 10 feet below the green on the 13th tee box.  NOTE: I played last weekend and they are growing out the fairway to the left of the centerline bunker, turning it into a left fairway bunker.  I was very disappointed when I saw this as the centerline aspect of the bunker really made the hole…

#13 – Another contender for my favorite hole on the course.  Par 5.  Love the uphill tee shot requiring you to hug the bunkers on the inside of the dogleg to get the best look at the green.  If you bail out left, you’ll have trouble getting to the green in regulation as some mature trees will block you out.  Sitting in the middle of the fairway at the top of the hill reveals what I think is the best view on the course with the remainder of the 13th unfolding before you.  Another fun green complex and bunkers that complicates the layup.

#16 – Shorter par 4 where the green really makes the hole.  Upside-down bowl that repels any shots at the edges of the green.  Great look from the slightly elevated tee.

[PCCraig]

George:

That's annoying to hear about #12. That kind of kills the hole to be honest. The only reason I see why they would reduce the fairway is to lower maintenence costs as there is plently of room to the left of that hole.

[George Freeman]

George:

That's annoying to hear about #12. That kind of kills the hole to be honest. The only reason I see why they would reduce the fairway is to lower maintenence costs as there is plently of room to the left of that hole.

Yeah, it definitely appears to be a budget thing.  They also appear to be struggling with the maintenance of the grass faces of all those nicely renovated bunkers...

[PCCraig]

George:

That's annoying to hear about #12. That kind of kills the hole to be honest. The only reason I see why they would reduce the fairway is to lower maintenence costs as there is plently of room to the left of that hole.

Yeah, it definitely appears to be a budget thing.  They also appear to be struggling with the maintenance of the grass faces of all those nicely renovated bunkers...

That's interesting as they hired a new super this year...a young guy that used to be a Lake Shore CC (I think). I suppose when you're paying the mortgage on a $3MM or $4MM property with a sizeable maintenance/expense budget while waiting for the village and economy to turn around to let you develop the land into Condos architectural interest goes out the window....

[Jud_T]

Bummer.  I didn't notice it 10 days ago.  They must be struggling financially as the tee sheet's rarely filled.  Condos?  what happened to Mr. Green Space? That would suck....

[PCCraig]

Bummer.  I didn't notice it 10 days ago.  They must be struggling financially as the tee sheet's rarely filled.  Condos?  what happened to Mr. Green Space? That would suck....

Jud,

In my experience with real estate developers, the only "green space" that they care about is in their wallet.

Obviously, I'd rather the land remain a golf course. But the Dr. (who is from Morton Grove I believe, no where near Ravisloe) who bought the place out of BK is probably keen on keeping it as a golf course for the time being while running a loss, waiting for the time when the market turns around and he can develop the property into homes/condos/parking/dog & cat hospitals. It's not the worst place for a mixed use development...hell they have their own train station with trains running right into the city.

Hate to be realistic, but I'd give Ravisloe another 5 years as a golf course. 

[Bill Seitz]

#3 – The second of back-to-back par 5s early in the round.  Plays in the opposite direction as the second.  You play up and over a ridge on the drive, with the landing area blind.  The property line on the right will make most people bail out left, where some mounding complicates your second if you fail to hit the fairway.  If you poke a drive (and the hole isn’t playing into the wind) you might have a shot at getting home in two.  The problem is if you get past the hole at any point, you’re pretty much screwed.  The third has probably my favorite green on the course: severely sloped back to front with all sorts of neat tier-ing and undulation.

I like this hole a lot, probably because as I mentioned before, I've birdied it five of the six times I've played it.  And that's from getting there in two, getting up and down from the front left bunker, and knocking it to 10 feet on a third shot wedge.  One thing I love about the green is that with the slope, it will accept a long iron or hybrid (I've hit anything from 3-wood to 6-iron in), but it really makes an approach wedge difficult, especially with today's groove and ball technology.  Almost any spin at all and you can see your ball spin down to the front, though there is the slightest ridge in the middle that will stop your ball if it doesn't have enough momentum.  Honestly, if I found myself 85-100 yards out, I'd probably punch a pitching wedge or even a 9-iron for the approach.  It would be tough to keep my 54 degree wedge on the green.

#12 – Love the centerline bunker that really complicates/makes you think on the drive.  Do you challenge the bunker to get a shorter club into the tough green or do you lay back and take your changes with a mid-iron?  I really like the cross bunkers that play with depth perception and the green is a lot of fun.  Miss the green by a yard left and you’re ball will end up 10 feet below the green on the 13th tee box.  NOTE: I played last weekend and they are growing out the fairway to the left of the centerline bunker, turning it into a left fairway bunker.  I was very disappointed when I saw this as the centerline aspect of the bunker really made the hole…

Man, that's too bad.  I've always approached that bunker the same way - go right at it.  If I hit it that straight, then oh well, and I've been in it once or twice.  But the greater likelihood is that I'm either going to push it a bit or turn it over a bit, and I'll "miss" to one side or the other.  Really like that green as well.

#13 – Another contender for my favorite hole on the course.  Par 5.  Love the uphill tee shot requiring you to hug the bunkers on the inside of the dogleg to get the best look at the green.  If you bail out left, you’ll have trouble getting to the green in regulation as some mature trees will block you out.  Sitting in the middle of the fairway at the top of the hill reveals what I think is the best view on the course with the remainder of the 13th unfolding before you.  Another fun green complex and bunkers that complicates the layup.

My vote for prettiest hole on the course.  I really like the look of the trees far in the background off the tee, and it just feels like a hole where I can let the shaft out a bit, take the club back a little outside, and take a big swing at a high fade.  The right to left slope of the fairway at that point plays into that as well.  If you can play a layup to a  good spot, it's one of the flatter greens on the course, so it allows the player a chance to knock one tight. 

[Jeff Shelman]

I recently played golf with new Minnesotan Pat Craig at my fairly modest club, albeit one with a fun course.

He compared it to a Ravisloe with more elevation change.

I've never played Rav, but these pictures make me realize I would like to. And that I'm cool with having my course (one that is 90-plus years old, has cool greens complexes and is more about positioning than power) compared with Rav.

[BCowan]

Great photo tour.  Bunkering looks solid and the green contours do as well.  Nice work for what looks to be a flat site.  I'll have to tee it there next summer.  Has the tee sheet picked up? 

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Recent article by Tim Cronin in CDG Magazine:

http://www.myvirtualpaper.com/doc/Golfweek-Custom-Media/cdga_aug-2014/2014081101/#14

[BCowan]

Steve,

  Nice post.  Doesn't look like a chainsaw is in the plans. 

Tim,

   Great write up

[Mike Treitler]

Actually played out here today.  All summer the greens were in rough shape running at about a 9 at best.    Today all of a sudden they finally rolled them and they were at about a 10.5 and looked amazing. 

Now is the time to play out here.   I'm not sure why it takes all year from them to get the greens rolling well but they were great today.

It's a nice track when the greens are good.   Great bunkering and staying below the hole on some holes is essential.

[Zack Molnar]

Rav was one of my first choices to play in the Chicago area, and having it be accessible by train made it even better. The only gripe I had with the course were the greens, as they never seemed to bother getting them to roll well, as Mike said. But glad to hear they do cut them occasionally.

Great fun track, and really tests all types of golfers with the requirements of placement on tee shots as well as approaches. If you have ever been above the hole on 3, you will quickly begin to do everything you can to stay below the hole from then on.

[Sven Nilsen]

On a historical note, I've now found repeated references to Ravisloe having 27 holes at one point.  The March 1910 The American Golfer notes the plans for changes to the course, including adding an additional 9 inside the existing 18 (if you look at an aerial of the course, there do appear to be some "golf" features laying in the small pocket of land just north of the clubhouse).  The December 1917 edition of the same magazine unequivocally states that Ravisloe had 27 holes, as do the 1916, 1917, 1920 and 1921 Annual Guides.

Sven

[BCowan]

Just a bump, any work with tree removal?  How is the course doing? 

[Terry Lavin]

Course is doing quite well. Maintenance practices have slipped a bit, but it's in pretty good shape for a public. Tree removal could be better but not worth complaining about. Overall, this is a big success story, as compared to the private club struggles in that area.

[Anthony Fowler]

Our very own Dan Moore is playing in the IL State Senior Am at Ravisloe right now. Hopefully he can give us an update on the course after the tournament. He should score well if he isn't too distracted looking for photo opportunities and doing on-the-ground research for his book. If he stumbles across an interesting piece of land that might have been an original green site, he might just WD himself and go get his camera and shovel. Play well Dan!

[Jud_T]

I question whether Highlands of Elgin is a better course.  Although a great public facility and a fine addition to the area's offerings, to me the back nine doesn't live up to the promise of the front.  We may have to review this discussion once we all get a look at Esler's redo of Mount Prospect, from what I hear...

[Andrew Buck]

I question whether Highlands of Elgin is a better course.  Although a great public facility and a fine addition to the area's offerings, to me the back nine doesn't live up to the promise of the front.  We may have to review this discussion once we all get a look at Esler's redo of Mount Prospect, from what I hear...

Give the courses equal conditioning, and I'll take Ravisloe in that battle.  In fairness, I only played it when Private, but after Esler's work there, while it was still conditioned well (compared to reports I've heard since), I think Ravisloe offers a more enjoyable experience.  Highlands of Elgin is a very good public course, and in very good condition, but the odd walks from green to tee on the back 9, the flow of reachable par 5, drivable par 4, reachable par 5, and the less inspiring finish starting with the 15th (par 3 surrounded by water) would have me favoring Ravisloe layout.

I know I'm in a minority, but I also thought Bowes Creek was a more pleasant walk, and a slightly favorable course to Highlands of Elgin, but not enough to justify paying $99 vs $44 to walk. 

[Scott McWethy]

Jud, thanks for posting these photos and your commentary.  I went there over Labor Day weekend and it was my first playing Ravisloe.  I only got in 8 holes because I had to leave due to a family emergency, but I really enjoyed the way the holes were shaped.  It's definitely a placement course and I had some angles into some of these holes that were not ideal.  I enjoyed looking at the pictures from holes 9 - 18 since I didn't get to play them.  My only gripe was that the greens were in horrible shape.

[Mark Smolens]

I played there today in the Senior Am, tho not as well as Mr. Moore (four sixes on the card, including 3 stupid three putts on the back nine!). When the greens are in this kind of shape, Ravisloe is just as good a public option as Highlands imo. Problem is, they don't cut them like this on a regular basis.

I don't think the course feels constricted by trees at all (that drive I blocked way right on #1 deserved to be in the jungle, tho it was a sweet up and down after punching out), and there are definitely some holes out there where you have to think about what kind of shot you want to hit. I played with a really good player today, and when he missed the fairways he had tree trouble, but us little guys who bunt it around find the course very playable -- especially when you feel like you have a chance to make a putt. When the greens are running at 8, and filled with ball marks that aren't repaired, it's not a very enjoyable walk in the park...

[Paul Stockert]

Saw this pop up in the thread and figured I might as well give my home course some love.  A couple updates to respond to comments/questions above.


No real tree changes have taken place in the past 2-3 years that change any of the holes.  Some aggressive trimming would be nice, but as opposed to some other 'small' or 'short' courses in the area there aren't any holes where overgrown trees jump out as a real problem.  No double hazard instances (like the trees left of the green and over the bunker on Cog Hill Dubs (4) which I hate.  They block you on the left side of the approach in 2 to the par 5 #2, and right side of the drive on par 5 #3, but I think they add some interest and force a shaped shot.


As far as the greens, based on 5 years or so of regular play, including a year when it was private, if you want the best experience at Rav go in the fall when it cools down (and hopefully isn't too wet) and play in the morning after they mow.  The greens have so much poa that they can't keep them short and rock hard when it's hot.  In the fall before aeration gives them the ability to keep them a little faster.  And in the morning the poa is less bumpy. 


As far as it's rank in Chicago...for the price to walk and the fun and conditioning for a public course I don't think it can be beat.  I would have always ranked Dubs ahead of it until playing after Rees redid it, and honestly he made it so you can't miss anywhere around the greens anymore.  I had much less fun.  Is it better...probably...but for $150 you won't find me there.  I'll agree with the judge about Pine Meadow (love that place) Glen Club (also too expensive but I'd like to play it all the time) Thunderhawk (great test and usually great conditioning...can we move it closer?  Does it count as Chicago?), and Orchard Valley.    I'd also add Stonewall Orchard in Grayslake although it's not for everyone.  But I put Rav ahead of Bowes Creek (too many of the same shots...we played 36 and I think I hit 2 hybrid off the tee 25 times...) and many of the other public options.  I wish Chicago had a dead set winner for best public course that could bring in a championship, but it doesn't really.  Until it does you can find me at Rav.


Who knows how to kill the development plans for the old American Steel site and make it a golf course ala Ferry Point instead??[size=78%]  [/size]


[/size][size=78%]- PJ[/size]


   




 

[BCowan]

I had the great pleasure of playing Ravisloe this past weekend.  I had a beautiful day and was lucky enough to get paired with two great locals.  I can't tell you how much that adds to one's first experience on a solid course.  I didn't know what to expect coming into the course and it blew me away how good it was.  Since it had been a very long weekend I tried to enjoy the nice weather and look at the course in more of a macro way.  However I kept writing down on the scorecard, really good hole, hole after hole.  It was the best Ross bunker iteration I have seen IMO (non sand blown out type, not fair to compare).   The standout holes for me were #3, #4, #5, #8, #9, #10-#13, #15, and #18.  I'm planning on playing 54 holes here next June to make sure that I haven't lost my mind.  I give the course a 7 and with tree removal it could go higher.  The course makes the most out of the land and there is enough little blind shots that gives the average non GCAer some nice quirk at an introductory level.  With 8 and 9 as examples.  The fairway bunkers on 9 blend in great with the dip and slight up-slope from 9 tee from my memory.   Also the course is very easy to walk for people in their later years, which is something that gets overlooked IMO. 

I'm told the course is inconsistently maintained, it was in good shape for me, greens rolled well, little softer then I'd like.  My local playing partner thought $50 in October was overpriced for the course , I guess people like playing in 85 deg weather and 90% humidity  .  I know if Arble played Ravisloe he would say ''It's a good Nic".  We played in 3:15 thanks to their local knowledge..  I've read this thread and many talk about having faster speeds, but I think Green firmness is what should be more sought after. 
 
I had the privilege of meeting the owner in the halfway house.  Very nice man, he proceeded to tell me he wanted to plant more trees to separate the holes (oh NO!)  I told him the greens would do better with more tree removal.  I hope some locals can talk tree removal with this nice gentlemen and change his mind. 

After playing Mt Prospect 3 days before, I'm very impressed with Esler.  How does one donate to the Esler Society??

[Sean_A]

I went back and looked at the pix after completely forgetting about this course.  I am still impressed...most espcially with the visual width at the greens.  The bunker spreading making a possible target (many of the greens are obscured) look far wider than may be the case.  By spreading I mean the bunkers seem to push away from greens rather than the usual wrap around the greens.  I have noticed this style at a few places recently.  Does anybody know who really pushes this style of green sites?


Ciao

[Howard Riefs]

No Laying Up with a 'crash course' video profile of Ravisloe:


https://twitter.com/NoLayingUp/status/1174004899392237568

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