[Sven Nilsen]

Jud:

Thanks for starting this photo tour, looking at the photos I'm picking up little nuances on the course that I forgot were there.  It was a shame for the membership that this course went public, but an absolute plus for the public duffer living in a town with a limited amount of reasonably priced options.  I'd rather play Ravisloe three times than Cog #4.  Only draw back is its distance from downtown.

The course has a great mix of holes:

Par 3's - a couple big tests (7 and 11) combined with the shorter holes that have great green sites (4, 6 and 15)

Short Par 4's - 1 may be a mundane hole, but 5, 16, 17 and 18 provide plenty of interest (wish there was a little more room around the 5th because that corner feels a bit cramped)

Long Par 4's - my two favorites are 9 and 10, a great back to back combo that play in a line and set a great pace for the start of the back

Par 5's - 2 and 3 back to back provide as much diversity in three shot holes as you can find, with two being nigh unreachable and three being in range but with great defenses around the green.  13 is a fun hole, but had some conditioning issues last year.

The 8th is probably the hole that represents the course as a whole the best.  The playing corridor is very wide, but to end up in the best spot to approach the green (the right) you have to challenge a series of fairway bunkers.  Once in the fairway, you're left befuddled by the bunkers short of the green that hide the run up area.  If you're coming in from the left, you probably have to negotiate the left side bunkers, from where an up and down is no picnic.  Its a hole (and a course) where picking the right line provides a tremendous benefit, but a miss is only punished by a harder shot (as opposed to a lost ball or unplayable lie).

To respond to a couple of Terry's comments, I think Ravisloe is well worth the effort to play, and would play it over the likes of Big Run and most of the west side public's mentioned.  I think Pine Meadow is a better test of golf, but Ravisloe is a more interesting golf course.  Shepherd's Crook and Highlands of Elgin would be my choice over Ravisloe, but there aren't many other publics I'd play in Chicago first.

To summarize, its a fun, short, cheap option with a great set of "country club" greens and enough variety to keep your interest up throughout the round.  I don't think its the best public in the area, but its certainly better than a lot of its competitors.  I'd love to hear Terry's take after a replay, and if you need to add a couple of drinking buddies into the mix to make your return feel like old times, I've got a couple of takers.

Last point - I think the comparisons should be made to other publics in Chicago.  As a private club, it didn't crack the top tiers.  As a daily fee, its top notch.

[Jud_T]

#12

400 Yard Par 4

A solid 2-shotter.  The bunkers are a pretty good poke to reach off the tee (240ish?).  But if you don't challenge them on the right side it leaves a fairly long approach and/or an odd angle.  On your second shot long is dead and left isn't much better.

[Jud_T]

Sven,

I agree that the public courses are the right comparison and we're in agreement on the three that I'd seek out on a regular basis.  I disagree that the Glen Club's a better course, even if it weren't twice the price.  Yes you can play it from 7150 if that's your cup of tea and it's a pretty impressive feat of engineering given that it was an airfield.  But compared to the set of greens at the Rav, the Glen Club's look as if they rolled right off the CAD printer at FAZ HQ.

[Jud_T]

#13

550 Yard Par 5

A three shotter for all but the biggest hitters, although the green will accept a running shot if you can dodge the bunkering.  A fun driving hole as you can let 'er rip without much penalty other than the bunkers to the right..  The cross bunkers make the layup more interesting.

[Jud_T]

#14

410 Yard Par 4

This is the only hole that I'll grant falls into Terry's ho hum category.  Yet another 400ish par 4.  The creek is attractive but isn't in play unless you cold top your tee shot and the green is one of the more pedestrian on the course.  It would have been nice if Esler could have mixed a couple really long par 4's in, but I doubt that the constraints of the property would have allowed it.

[Jud_T]

#15

146 Yard Par 3

Another really good short par 3.  Plays a bit uphill, is very well bunkered and there's a large ridge running through the green that makes the effective target for a birdie quite small, particularly if the pin is on the left.

[Phil McDade]

Jud:

Great tour so far. I really like the look of #13, as it appears to do something that few par 5s accomplish -- provides for a thoughtful second-shot layup for those not going at the green. So few par 5s make the player think carefully about the layup; this one looks like it does. Does it play that way?

[Terry Lavin]

Jud:

Great tour so far. I really like the look of #13, as it appears to do something that few par 5s accomplish -- provides for a thoughtful second-shot layup for those not going at the green. So few par 5s make the player think carefully about the layup; this one looks like it does. Does it play that way?

Good call.  13 is clearly the "best in class" at the Rav.  A true three-shotter and you do have to think about the layup, as you mention.  This also happens to be the most beautiful nook on the golf course, without any street traffic or improved property to deal with.

[PCCraig]

Jud:

Thanks for posting your pictures of "Rav."

I tend to agree that while the course isn't even in the same universe as many of the top tier and 2nd tier private courses in Chicago, it's now a very nice public course option. However, I think that probably speaks to the general lack of strategic public golf course architecture in the greater Chicagoland area. Ravisloe is a nice place to spend an afternoon, but I don't find it that interesting. I like #15 probably the best, followed by #4, #13, and (I'm drawing a blank now, it's the shorter par-4 with the green that slopes away from the player) I think #16.

To say the course is more interesting or better than Cog Hill #4 is a stretch...I'm not a huge fan of the work done there, but it's still a better golf course than Ravisloe. I'd proabably put at least #4, Pine Meadow, Shepherd's Crook, Highlands of Elgin, Thunderhawk ahead of Ravisloe. 

Then again, Ravisloe is so far south of the city sometimes its worth just driving the extra 45 min to South Bend to play the Warren Course for half as much and twice as fast.

[Mark McKeever]

Thanks for the pictures Jud!  It looks like a pretty neat place!

Mark

[Bill Seitz]

I really enjoy the golf course itself.  It's a fun place to play, and in my experience it has generally been uncrowded, though I don't always play at peak times.  Good practice facility.  Some holes are a bit boring, but there's enough interesting things going on there to make for a fun round.  

How is the conditioning been for the last year or so?  I didn't make it down there last year, in part because I felt I was treated very poorly by one employee and vowed not to go back for a while.  Now that I realize it's only a few blocks from Flossmoor Station Brewing, I made need to finally get over it and head down there for a round.  

The weird thing is that I've played there probably six times.  In those six rounds, I've birdied the third hole five of six times, and bogeyed (or worse) the fourth hole five of six times.  I have roughly the same scoring average on each hole, despite one being a 490 yard par five and the other being a 180 yard par three.  

[Jud_T]

Bill,

The conditioning has been pretty good.  Last year was obviously a very tough year for most courses in the area and the Rav had some issues as well, but not as bad as some area courses.  But by public course standards, it's generally in pretty decent shape.  And Flossmoor Station is the only good microbrewery in the area IMO!

[PCCraig]

Bill,

The conditioning has been pretty good.  Last year was obviously a very tough year for most courses in the area and the Rav had some issues as well, but not as bad as some area courses.  But by public course standards, it's generally in pretty decent shape.  And Flossmoor Station is the only good microbrewery in the area IMO!

Flossmoor station is an awesome place to have a beer, as it's located in the town's old train station. But Rav is also probably 15 min from 3Floyds too, and they're not so bad!

[Jud_T]

REALLY?!! ROAD TRIP!!  sounds like a good GCA outing!

[Bill Seitz]

REALLY?!! ROAD TRIP!!  sounds like a good GCA outing!

I'd be up for doing this in almost any/every direction this year.  Flossmoor is a perfect place to stop after a round in this area.  I was just down at Balmoral Woods, and it's really easy jaunt to 3 Floyd's after a round there, and with their beer becoming nearly impossible to find in the city, I make sure to pick up a case or two whenever I'm there.  Lake Bluff Brewing just opened down the road from Pine Meadow and other courses in that area.  And I still haven't been to the Two Brothers brewery in Warrenville, and lord knows there are enough places out there to play. 

[SL_Solow]

I have played Rav since the 1970's.  I think both Jud and Terry have overstated their respective positions.  All in all it is a fine place to play and a good value in the Chicago market.

First, Pat, if you can drive to South Bend in only 45 minutes longer than it takes to get to Flossmoor you should quit banking and join the NASCAR circuit.  If you are talking about a course within easy distance of the Chicago loop, they are in different markets.


As to the course, it was well described.  It benefitted greatly from Dave Elser's sympathetic renovation which improved the look of the features, removed numerous trees, and restored a lot of choices and therefore strategy.  This helped elevate its position.  Back in the 70's and 80's, even among the predominately Jewish clubs, it was questionable whether it was a better course than Idlewild which is only about a mile away.  But Idlewild, while retaining great "bones", allowed committees to overtree the course while watching green sizes (and tee sizes) shrink.  

In trying to make his case Terry goes too far. I think very few would rank Calumet ahead of Ravisloe.  Calumet is a nice course but has no great interest and suffers from many of the problems Terry attributes to Rav.  Bry Mawr sits on an even smaller piece of land and has far too many very short par 4's narrowed by trees and defended by cross bunkers.  It does have a superior set of par 3's.

As a private, Rav was well in the middle of the pack of the courses below the top echelon in terms of overall architectural interest.  It has its share of quirk and is well worth the play but is limited by its terrain and lack of property.

As a public it is a standout because it is so different from most of what is available.  It is not as challenging as Cog Hill.  I think the Glen Club is a pretty good Fazio and well worth the play.  I think Terry overrates Big Run although its elevation changes make it different than most in the area.  Haven't played Pine Meadow in awhile; mixed views in large part because I think it is overtreed but well routed and worth playing.  I won't comment on all of those mentioned most of which are pretty good.  But Ravisloe is different because of the time in which it was built and its continued reflection of that style of architecture.  Thus, regardless of the ranking, it is worth playing.

As an aside, perhaps the most interesting green in the immediate area, with my apologies to #3 at OFCC North, is the 6th at Idlewild, although it has suffered from shrinkage.  Par 3 that stretches from 180 to back tees about 220? with a lower right side punchbowl which connects up and to the left to a small plateau.  Two different concepts connected to each other which cause the hole to play in a materially different way depending on the hole location.

[PCCraig]

REALLY?!! ROAD TRIP!!  sounds like a good GCA outing!

I'd be up for doing this in almost any/every direction this year.  Flossmoor is a perfect place to stop after a round in this area.  I was just down at Balmoral Woods, and it's really easy jaunt to 3 Floyd's after a round there, and with their beer becoming nearly impossible to find in the city, I make sure to pick up a case or two whenever I'm there.  Lake Bluff Brewing just opened down the road from Pine Meadow and other courses in that area.  And I still haven't been to the Two Brothers brewery in Warrenville, and lord knows there are enough places out there to play. 

Bill:

Two Brothers is a fun place to visit for a tour and a tasting. As is Half Acre (as you know) and Metropolitan which is about as low-key as a brewery tour I've ever seen; essentially one room with equipment, complete with a "brewery mascot" (a puppy).

[PCCraig]

First, Pat, if you can drive to South Bend in only 45 minutes longer than it takes to get to Flossmoor you should quit banking and join the NASCAR circuit.  If you are talking about a course within easy distance of the Chicago loop, they are in different markets.

I've thought about it Shelly...

[Jud_T]

#16

390 Yard Par 4

A strong hole with a fabulous green that's been discussed here previously.  You know that stereotypical Ross turtleback green that everyone thinks all his greens resemble but rarely exists in reality? Well this is it.  Balls roll off in all four directions, particularly long and left, and one either has a wedge in or runs it on.  The slopes are subtle, the pucker factor for the regular is not.  

[Jud_T]

#17:

Par 4, 400 Yards

A completely blind tee shot at this point in the match adds some excitement.  A good drive over the bunker will catch the slope and give one a mid-iron in.

[Jud_T]

#18

355 Yard Par 4

While not the stern finisher many look for, this hole isn't an easy par either.  One can play for position out to the right or challenge the left side in order to have a wedge in.  A very well bunkered green, with the right rear bunker being particularly steep and deep.









In conclusion, Ravisloe Country Club offers a unique old-school strategic challenge to a metro Chicago public course market which has plenty of tree-lined parkland courses that are mostly of a type.  It's well worth the drive down to Homewood to check it out for anyone who's interested in Ross, Esler or simply an enjoyable game.  And you might even finish with enough time and money left over to enjoy a beverage in the equally old-school clubhouse bar.

[Jud_T]

fyi-Interactive course map:

http://ravisloecountryclub.com/golf/proto/ravisloecountryclub/course/course_tour.htm

[Sean_A]

Jud

Thanks again.  Ravisloe looks very solid start to finish if a bit samey here and there.  Its tough to get something wonderful out of a flat property.  Still, I wouldn't shy away from a game there. 

Ciao

[Jud_T]

Sean,

With few exceptions, flat pretty much describes the entire area.

[PCCraig]

Jud:

Thanks for the pictures of the last few holes.

I like that (aiming?) bunker in the hill on 17 a lot.

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