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Ran Morrissett

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May's Feature Interview with Jeff Brauer is posted
« on: May 03, 2011, 06:21:08 PM »
Intellectual curiosity carries a lot of weight, at least with me. Once you stop learning, you start dying.

Perhaps an overstatement, perhaps not, but this month's Feature Interviewee has shown great curiosity for nearly a decade on GolfClubAtlas.com. Jeff Brauer signed up in 2001 and has been a regular poster (he is coming up on 9,000 posts) ever since. Why do it? Why spend time here? Yes, maybe a lurking green committee member potentially reaches out to you but that kind of staying power suggests that Jeff simply loves anything to do with golf course architecture.

A past president of the ASGCA, he is known to be open minded and entertains diverse view points without rolling his eyes.

Tom Paul has known Jeff for some years and here is what Tom has to say: "I met Jeff over ten years ago when I tried to help him get a project in Bucks Co, Pa (it didn't work out). I've never seen his architecture but since meeting him and getting to know him I think he brings his own somewhat unique perspective to the art and execution of golf architecture and ultimately I appreciate that and feel it is very near to ultimate importance. As this Feature Interview shows Jeff also brings to the business cumulative influences on him of those he's worked for and with over the years in his approach and he articulates that well in his answers to the questions put to him. He's a good guy with a very enjoyable and relaxed sense of humor----eg I showed him my drawing of Ardrossan Farm and he said 'it looked OK but I sure did draw like an amateur' (he was right!). He sent me a notebook he was working on that included a series of "hole concepts" that basically covered a number of what he felt were the accepted principles of golf architecture. At first I felt that might be a bit of a standardized approach but over the years and on some reflection I believe it to be an approach that very likely addresses the primary point of golf architecture which is to supply the greatest number of golfers with what they may want and may maximally enjoy. It's a staple of what I've come to call the "Big World Theory" which addresses the fact that in a game like golf and in an art-form like golf architecture the spectrum of types and styles should necessarily never be limited." 

That's a great compliment to Jeff.

Open mindedness isn't necessarily a quality other architects share with Jeff. I am told by two very good sources that one of the biggest names in golf course architecture forbids his crew from seeing other modern work when they have a project in the area. That does not strike me as a particularly enlightened modus operandi. Also, one of the legends in golf course architecture has never once seen a course from a particular star pupil of his. Again, not good. Why be so insular? There is no way such an approach helps one flourish in any art form.

Jeff's Feature Interview is found here:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/feature-interview/jeffrey-brauer-may-2011/

Here's hoping that more architects adopt Jeff's inquisitive approach (no wonder professional golfers like teaming with him) as well as hoping that Jeff posts as much within this Discussion Group the next decade as he did in the last. His free flow of knowledge tells me he is very comfortable with what he has to offer.

Cheers,

Jeff_Mingay

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Re: May's Feature Interview with Jeff Brauer is posted
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2011, 07:42:14 PM »
I haven't read the interview yet, but I like Ran's introduction and agree with the characterization of Jeff Brauer above.

Jeff's inquisitive, indeed. We connected a number of years ago while he was visiting his mother in Toledo. He made a point to drive up to Detroit to meet with me. We toured a couple Detroit area Ross courses - at Oakland Hills and Franklin Hills - on a cold spring day, and had a great time. I next saw Jeff at the Golf Industry Show in Orlando a few years later, and it was like we saw each other the previous day.

I haven't seen any of Jeff's architecture yet, either. But I do know that he's a solid guy. And a fun guy to be around.

I look forward to reading his interview. 
jeffmingay.com

Sam Morrow

Re: May's Feature Interview with Jeff Brauer is posted
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2011, 02:08:24 AM »
I can say that I've never played a Brauer course that I didn't enjoy, that is probably one of the biggest compliments you can pay an architect.

Mike_Young

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Re: May's Feature Interview with Jeff Brauer is posted
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2011, 10:49:02 AM »
Jeff,
I read your interview....if this site wishes to be educated as to golf design and wishes to view all aspects they need to listen to what you have to say there vs. just reading this stuff about some ODGs.......there is a lot to be said for post WW2 design and it's contributions...

The rest of you...
This site has a bunch of dicks on it....here is a guy that has posted 9000 times and taken all of your crap...including mine...and there has been two comments here...come on....you bunch of goobs...read this stuff...I realize most of you are jaded and will not allow your self to view it with an open mind but do it anyway...cheers,...
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

JMEvensky

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Re: May's Feature Interview with Jeff Brauer is posted
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2011, 11:11:15 AM »
Jeff,
I read your interview....if this site wishes to be educated as to golf design and wishes to view all aspects they need to listen to what you have to say there vs. just reading this stuff about some ODGs.......there is a lot to be said for post WW2 design and it's contributions...

The rest of you...
This site has a bunch of dicks on it....here is a guy that has posted 9000 times and taken all of your crap...including mine...and there has been two comments here...come on....you bunch of goobs...read this stuff...I realize most of you are jaded and will not allow your self to view it with an open mind but do it anyway...cheers,...


I don't know if I'm a dick,a goob,or both,but I thought the interview was great.And you're right,I've learned a lot from reading JB's posts.He tends to make technical stuff understandable for me.

That said,the selfish part of me almost wishes that he'd never get another golf course commission--his responses in the NLGA (now Merion) thread are worth gold.I'd hate to think that he'd have to take time away from that to go design a golf course.

Mike_Young

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Re: May's Feature Interview with Jeff Brauer is posted
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2011, 11:13:49 AM »
JM,
I'm both dick and goob as well as nerd and dork...so just choose the ones you want...oh and my wife says I am sometimes a jerk...that bout covers it...
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

George Pazin

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Re: May's Feature Interview with Jeff Brauer is posted
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2011, 11:25:31 AM »
The rest of you...
This site has a bunch of dicks on it....here is a guy that has posted 9000 times and taken all of your crap...including mine...and there has been two comments here...come on....you bunch of goobs...read this stuff...I realize most of you are jaded and will not allow your self to view it with an open mind but do it anyway...cheers,...

Lordy, Mike, the thread just went up this morning! Give people a chance, the interviews are usually long and best read when one has time to digest (save Pete Dye's :)).

Very nice interview, Ran and Jeff, thanks for sharing. I especially enjoyed the fact that the questions seemed tailored specifically to Jeff, not just "name your favorite or least favorite this or that".

Jeff, forgive my ignorance, but the photo of the first at Firekeeper, is the fairway just growing in? Looks kinda funky. All of your pics look compelling, hope I get to enjoy one of your courses someday.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Mike_Young

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Re: May's Feature Interview with Jeff Brauer is posted
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2011, 11:28:11 AM »
George,
somehow I read it last nite..and I thought the thread was up then..oh well...another case of being a jerk...sorry bout that...
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Jeff_Brauer

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Re: May's Feature Interview with Jeff Brauer is posted
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2011, 11:42:19 AM »
George,

Yeah that is from my files without benefit of photoshop, and actually taken just a few months after seeding in Octover 2009.  The course is open now for public play, and all those washouts were fixed when I visited late last October.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

George Pazin

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Re: May's Feature Interview with Jeff Brauer is posted
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2011, 11:44:52 AM »
Thanks, Jeff, and thanks for providing thoughtful answers in your interview.

George,
somehow I read it last nite..and I thought the thread was up then..oh well...another case of being a jerk...sorry bout that...

No worries, it may have been up late last night, but generally speaking, most posters on here don't roll that way. :)
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

PCCraig

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Re: May's Feature Interview with Jeff Brauer is posted
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2011, 03:47:11 PM »
Ran & Jeff:

A very interesting interview. Having grown up playing my fair share of K&N courses (and redesigned holes) I was interested in reading about their "formulas." Jeff...have you ever seen the Dunes Club, and if so, what do you think of Dick Nugent's work there? Did he use formulas there...or was that project different? What do you think is their most underrated golf course?

I'll confess I've never played a Brauer course, but now that I'm in Minnesota I'm going to try to do my best to get up to see the Quarry at Giant’s Ridge this year as it looks awesome.
H.P.S.

Jeff_Brauer

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Re: May's Feature Interview with Jeff Brauer is posted
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2011, 04:03:14 PM »
Have not been to the Dunes club, as that was after I left.  Tim could answer your questions.

As to under rated courses, I always love Sand Creek in Chesterton. It had that old time feel to it.  Smaller scale than Kemper Lakes (Ken's influence, I think)  Of course, I liked Lake Arrowhead up in Nekoosa, WI, having lived there to build it for them.  I still regret altering some sand dunes for better green vision on 5!

What really killed me about the "formulas" Dick had was when an agromist I worked with showed me a set of William Mitchell formulas that were nearly the same for green size, opening width, etc.  And, talking with Damian Pascuzzo, Bob Graves had some very similar ones too.  Dick always said the trick was to know when to break them, but not to break them too often or pretty soon you get an unplayable golf course. 

We can see that with the number of, say JN courses that have more than a few greens angled sharply with forced carries.  On the other hand, we an see the 50-70's era guys maybe got too attached to the formulas for playability.  I try to strike the happy balance, of course, but whether I make it is up for others to decide.

BTW, the quarry breaks my design mold more than any other course.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Will MacEwen

Re: May's Feature Interview with Jeff Brauer is posted
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2011, 04:10:18 PM »
I always enjoy Jeff's posts, so getting the "Full Brauer" was a nice bonus. 

I have heard the bit about the Yellow Pages before but it's classic.

Thanks Ran and Jeff.

PCCraig

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Re: May's Feature Interview with Jeff Brauer is posted
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2011, 04:19:50 PM »
BTW, the quarry breaks my design mold more than any other course.

Thanks for your response Jeff. Can you expand on your last statement?
H.P.S.

Sean Leary

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Re: May's Feature Interview with Jeff Brauer is posted
« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2011, 05:06:36 PM »
I am playing my first Brauer design in a  couple of weeks at Sand Creek Station, and very much looking forward to it....

Brian Phillips

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Re: May's Feature Interview with Jeff Brauer is posted
« Reply #15 on: May 05, 2011, 01:12:31 AM »
Jeff,

Love ya man!
Bunkers, if they be good bunkers, and bunkers of strong character, refuse to be disregarded, and insist on asserting themselves; they do not mind being avoided, but they decline to be ignored - John Low Concerning Golf

Jeff_Brauer

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Re: May's Feature Interview with Jeff Brauer is posted
« Reply #16 on: May 05, 2011, 11:23:45 AM »
Brian,

Good to hear you have some alternate but related employment, but still keep a hand in (from another thread).  There does seem to be a trickle of golf investment coming back to the US market so maybe most of us will survive.

It was always a pleasure to offer whatever help I could, but I think you overstate the case!

Pat,

The Quarry (along with maybe Colbert Hills) is the toughest course I have designed.  It had to be, really, given that we wanted to leave the Quarry features untouched.  The first course was pretty typical, and got called the "Gentle Giant" as a resort course, so they figured they needed a better test.

I took the clients to see Pine Barrens and Tobacco Road to show them that a Quarry type course was feasible and not too hard, and the Mike Strantz style influenced the final design.  That said, I believe the Quarry is far easier and designed for play than some of Mike's stuff, which seemed to emphasize the artwork at the expense of shot values, at least IMHO.

While its hard to quantify, I am sure if Sean plays Sand Creek and then Colbert Hills, he will see a difference in my typical desire for interesting golf over tough golf, as CH was designed for college tourneys.  Ditto Quarry vs Legends, with The Wilderness sort of being right in between.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

PCCraig

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Re: May's Feature Interview with Jeff Brauer is posted
« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2011, 11:40:41 AM »
Pat,

The Quarry (along with maybe Colbert Hills) is the toughest course I have designed.  It had to be, really, given that we wanted to leave the Quarry features untouched.  The first course was pretty typical, and got called the "Gentle Giant" as a resort course, so they figured they needed a better test.

I took the clients to see Pine Barrens and Tobacco Road to show them that a Quarry type course was feasible and not too hard, and the Mike Strantz style influenced the final design.  That said, I believe the Quarry is far easier and designed for play than some of Mike's stuff, which seemed to emphasize the artwork at the expense of shot values, at least IMHO.

While its hard to quantify, I am sure if Sean plays Sand Creek and then Colbert Hills, he will see a difference in my typical desire for interesting golf over tough golf, as CH was designed for college tourneys.  Ditto Quarry vs Legends, with The Wilderness sort of being right in between.

Very interesting...thanks Jeff.
H.P.S.

Jeff_Brauer

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Re: May's Feature Interview with Jeff Brauer is posted
« Reply #18 on: May 05, 2011, 01:26:28 PM »
Pat,

Glad it helps.  BTW, when I say the Wilderness was right in between the two GR courses in design philosophy, I remember the client telling me the design program was to place the Wilderness "right in between the two GR courses in design  difficulty."  They felt the first course was too easy, and the Quarry was too tough and they would be best served in the middle, which I think we accomplished. 

Of the three courses, I get feedback that the Wilderness is the most popular with average players by a smidge, maybe 50-40-10 for each course being the favorite.  That said, I believe GR gets slightly more play, perhaps by virtue of being slightly closer to the Twin Cities, its higher ranking, or maybe the ability to stay overnight once and play two courses.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Peter_Collins

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Re: May's Feature Interview with Jeff Brauer is posted
« Reply #19 on: May 05, 2011, 02:46:14 PM »
Any club thinking about the renovation of course should take a look at Jeff's work at Wichita Country Club.  Working with a landlocked late 1940's William Diddle design Jeff did an amazing job of creating a course that at 6900 yards consistently holds up to par in USGA qualifying events and collegiate tournaments yet remains a fun country club course for players of virtually every ability.  The work he did on drainage of the course that had both soil conditions and topography working against it was nothing short of amazing.  Before Jeff's renovation the course would have been lucky to get a Kansas Golf Association tournament, in 2010 it hosted the USGA Women's Mid-Am. 

Randy Thompson

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Re: May's Feature Interview with Jeff Brauer is posted
« Reply #20 on: May 05, 2011, 10:20:31 PM »
Great interview Ran, down to earth.

Mac Plumart

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Re: May's Feature Interview with Jeff Brauer is posted
« Reply #21 on: May 06, 2011, 05:51:10 AM »
I'm currently on the road and only checking in every once in awhile, and, therefore, haven't read the interview yet.  But I had to log in and say that of all the posts I've cut and pasted into my Word files in order to save and re-read from time to time, Jeff is the author of the bulk of those posts.  His knowledge is vast and his willingness to share is at the high end of the spectrum.  He is a real resource to this site. 


Of course, that is when he isn't being a dick or a goob!!!   :)
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Niall C

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Re: May's Feature Interview with Jeff Brauer is posted
« Reply #22 on: May 06, 2011, 08:03:45 AM »
Jeff

At last I've seen some of your work, if only in photo's. Great interview, one of the most interesting things I've read on this site. A great insight into your design thoughts, your influence and the state of the golf design business.

Cheers

Niall

Tony_Chapman

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Re: May's Feature Interview with Jeff Brauer is posted
« Reply #23 on: May 06, 2011, 10:21:26 PM »
Jeff -- Really enjoyed the interview.

Do you mind sharing what you learned early in your career (on your own) with the board? I've tooted your horn around here as brining golf in Nebraska to modern levels. Before your designs at Woodland Hills, Highlands, the re-work at Pioneers and Champions Run a guy in our state basically had to belong to a club to play a decent 18-hole golf course.

What do you remember about those early projects and do they still influence you today?

Thanks!

PS -- If anyone on this board travels more that 200 miles to play Prairie Dunes and then skips Sand Creek Station, they've made a HUGE mistake. It's the best $45 you'll ever spend.

Ryan Farrow

Re: May's Feature Interview with Jeff Brauer is posted
« Reply #24 on: May 08, 2011, 11:28:14 AM »
Thanks Ran and Jeff. Great interview....

I would still like to play a Jeff Brauer course one day, I guess I'm still young. Its always nice to hear stories about architects got in the profession.


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