[MikeJones]

This thread makes me very glad that I play my golf in the UK. To almost every golfer in the UK much of what you are expected to pay to be a member of a golf club in the US is almost beyond belief.

In the UK for the most part we pay our yearly subscription fee (most golf clubs don't even have a joining fee these days) and off you go.

I'm a member at a fairly prestigious Mackenzie designed club in the North West of England and if you're 21 to 29 years of age you pay the equivalent of just over $500 per year to be a full fledged 7 day member of the club. The yearly cost if your're 30 or over rises to about $1300. No joining fee, no down payment, no minimum spent on food, drink etc.

You don't need to do anything else but turn up and play golf. Of course with the golf being so reasonable you tend to find the restaurant and bar busy at the end of your round.

To answer the op's question, lower dues and get rid of other fees - it's going to happen you just don't know it yet.

[Kalen Braley]

Based on Mikes comments...

Sounds like you basically just buy the equivilant of a season pass that you could get at a public course here in the states.  With the exception being only season pass purchasers can play the course.

[Dan Byrnes]

When I was President of my club, I dropped the food minimum.  This was done because our margins on that spending were too low.  I needed to raise more revenue so I raised dues some and dropped the food minimum.  For my club the end result was a positive one.  The club got more net revenue and the restaurant was forced to cater more towards the customers who wanted to use instead of being forced to and focus more on its outside business.  The restaurant became a bit more lean and ended with better margins.  Most members were happy although the fine dining crowd wasn't.  They were used to a menu containing too many items to be cost efficient and staffing always on the stand by in case they wanted to show up.

In the end the membership didn't want to subsidize member fine dining.

As far as initiations they are the best way for a club to pay for additional projects and keep a member involved.  Dues should be kept low as possible as I believe occasional assessments should pay for upgrades and refurbishments.

The competition for members in my area has pretty much eliminated Initiation Fees in my area as the products are somewhat generic and its hard to compete against clubs that do not have an initiation.  This is not a good thing!
 
Form my experience clubs are no longer about being part of a community but looked upon like a consumer good, which also doesn't bode well for clubs in the future.  Certainly there are well heeled places that this isn't a factor but its certainly becoming more and more of one.

Dan

I agree with 100% of your assessment--no pun intended.

Can I ask what part of the world you're in?

USA, Upstate NY Albany area, 2 1/2 hours north of NYC.

Dan

[Dan Byrnes]

This thread makes me very glad that I play my golf in the UK. To almost every golfer in the UK much of what you are expected to pay to be a member of a golf club in the US is almost beyond belief.

In the UK for the most part we pay our yearly subscription fee (most golf clubs don't even have a joining fee these days) and off you go.

I'm a member at a fairly prestigious Mackenzie designed club in the North West of England and if you're 21 to 29 years of age you pay the equivalent of just over $500 per year to be a full fledged 7 day member of the club. The yearly cost if your're 30 or over rises to about $1300. No joining fee, no down payment, no minimum spent on food, drink etc.

You don't need to do anything else but turn up and play golf. Of course with the golf being so reasonable you tend to find the restaurant and bar busy at the end of your round.

To answer the op's question, lower dues and get rid of other fees - it's going to happen you just don't know it yet.

I don't know enough about your area, but unless you have a ton of members, I don't know how you can maintain a course at those rates and have it be a premium place to play.  Private clubs in my area are spending 400,000 to 900,000 dollars a year just to maintain a course that is typically buried under snow for 5 months a year?  I am sure the costs in other area are much, much higher.  It seems to me the minimum that a club needs in revenue is 1 million to function and if you have lots of grounds, offer premium services and have nice amenities such as tennis, practice area and pool the price can be much, much  higher.  At my club it costs $80,000 to operate the pool with the costs involved?

Really hard to compare when your not comparing apples to apples.

Dan

[Grant Saunders]

I find this thread very interesting looking at it from New Zealand.

Much like the UK, we pay a yearly one off membership fee. I know of maybe a couple of clubs in Auckland which charge what you guys refer to as initiation fees. Im not sure what they actually pay but would be surprised if it were more than $2-3000 NZ dollars. The introduction of this fee has only been a recent addition most probably inspired by the US influence. The yearly fee at these same clubs may be around $1800 max.

At my club, we have no initiation fee and pay a yearly sub of $430 NZ dollars. We have 500 members including men, women and juniors.

I would be very interested if people would be prepared to share how much their golf costs them. Im certainly not looking to judge anyone based on the information but rather I am just plainly curious. You could PM me the info if you didnt want to share on here. I wont use it in any way. If you could give an idea of a breakdown on things like food and beverage minimums and other associated costs and member numbers.

Grant

[David Harshbarger]

I have to agree on the food minimums and the ticky-tacky charges.  They really turned me off of some local clubs, who were charging extra for GHIN membership, lockers, and club storage.  Hmm, should I spend $80 to have my clubs stored? leads to the question "Why am I being asked if $80 is fair value for club storage?"

On the food charges, I wouldn't mind a minimum but I expect good value, and $8 kids plates did not represent value.  The thought of my kids running up $500-$1,000/month on burgers at the pool was over the top.

David-I don`t know how old your children are but I would think you would have some oversight in regard to their spending. As far as $8 kids plates is that expensive? As far as GHIN goes your local golf association does not provide that to the member clubs for free. Is $25 expensive? Is $80 a lot for the convenience of storing your clubs for a season? You are griping about small potato issues. Initiation fees and assessments are what need to be vetted before jumping in head first.

Tim, you are absolutely right, these are small potato issues.  That's what was disconcerting.  Of course I would pay the $80 storage fee.  And the $25 GHIN fee. And the $40 locker fee. My point was that these are broken out as line item extras at this club.  That had the effect of making me feel not like a member but like a mark.  This is a non-equity club.

As for the kids food, my kids can eat.  $8 plus drink plus snacks plus more drinks plus snacks....

[Bill Brightly]

This thread makes me very glad that I play my golf in the UK. To almost every golfer in the UK much of what you are expected to pay to be a member of a golf club in the US is almost beyond belief.

In the UK for the most part we pay our yearly subscription fee (most golf clubs don't even have a joining fee these days) and off you go.

I'm a member at a fairly prestigious Mackenzie designed club in the North West of England and if you're 21 to 29 years of age you pay the equivalent of just over $500 per year to be a full fledged 7 day member of the club. The yearly cost if your're 30 or over rises to about $1300. No joining fee, no down payment, no minimum spent on food, drink etc.

You don't need to do anything else but turn up and play golf. Of course with the golf being so reasonable you tend to find the restaurant and bar busy at the end of your round.

To answer the op's question, lower dues and get rid of other fees - it's going to happen you just don't know it yet.

Oh how I wish private clubs in the US could follow UK models....  If you saw the average Grounds/Equipment budget, you would be sick....

[Tim Martin]

I have to agree on the food minimums and the ticky-tacky charges.  They really turned me off of some local clubs, who were charging extra for GHIN membership, lockers, and club storage.  Hmm, should I spend $80 to have my clubs stored? leads to the question "Why am I being asked if $80 is fair value for club storage?"

On the food charges, I wouldn't mind a minimum but I expect good value, and $8 kids plates did not represent value.  The thought of my kids running up $500-$1,000/month on burgers at the pool was over the top.

David-I don`t know how old your children are but I would think you would have some oversight in regard to their spending. As far as $8 kids plates is that expensive? As far as GHIN goes your local golf association does not provide that to the member clubs for free. Is $25 expensive? Is $80 a lot for the convenience of storing your clubs for a season? You are griping about small potato issues. Initiation fees and assessments are what need to be vetted before jumping in head first.

Tim, you are absolutely right, these are small potato issues.  That's what was disconcerting.  Of course I would pay the $80 storage fee.  And the $25 GHIN fee. And the $40 locker fee. My point was that these are broken out as line item extras at this club.  That had the effect of making me feel not like a member but like a mark.  This is a non-equity club.

As for the kids food, my kids can eat.  $8 plus drink plus snacks plus more drinks plus snacks....

David-Thanks for the reply. I know what you are saying in that no one likes to feel like they are being taken advantage of. I have a friend who got a monthly bill for frozen snickers bars and sodas for a month that was $$$. His 11 year old son overheard the member # given by the mom at the pool snack bar and the rest is club lore.

[Steve Kline]

I'm not so young, but I haven't served on a club board.  If you saw my dashing figure you'd realize that I'm well aware of the culinary offerings in Manhattan.    So why does the membership require a full service food/bev operation?  Because it's always had one?  Because it helps pay for a larger clubhouse/ facilities than the club really needs these days? Because everyone wants their kids to have a place to have their wedding/sweet sixteen/confirmation/bar mitzvah?  I get it, I just don't get it.  My old club was run by a rich guy with an iron fist.  His wife wanted a full service club so he paid for a $6mm clubhouse with full banquet facilities.  They had a french chef on staff who obviously wasn't good enough to get a job at a real french restaurant and a full wait staff, but only served dinner on weekends during the season.  There wasn't a food minimum but the dues got to the choking point relative to the quality of the course/location for many when the proverbial sh*t hit the fan in '08.  

Jud,

I truly understand what you are saying. Let me try to explain it another way. Let's say you, me and 198 other guys (all with money) decide we want to start a brand new country club tomorrow. One of the first things we have to decide is what we are going to do about food. Humor me and say that you want a full service bar/restaurant/banquet hall model, ok? Now once we decide on that, we damn well better have good, fresh food every night, and a full staff to cook it and serve it, whether or not you, me and our friends show up to eat there EVERY night that we are open. We recognize that we have STIFF competition from nearby restaurants, and our wives are gonna want to eat at every damn new place their friends told them about...So how do we ensure a flow of paying customers to give this model a chance of breaking even? We establish minimums! And that is how almost every old line country club operates in the US. (A VERY small number of elite clubs simply split up the costs at the end of the year.)The huge club houses have already been built. The dining operations are in full swing, whether or not they actually break even...and it is next to impossible to go back. Take away the minimums and all you do is sink these restaurant operations further into the hole. Scale back on the dining options and you lose every house member and probably a significant number of the full members.

My guess is the club that you and I form will only have burgers and beer,  one helluva golf course, a modest locker room,  and no place to hold weddings. That is fine, but that is NOT the model in place at the vast majority of private clubs in the US, so pick your club accordingly.

What you are describing is essentially socialism/central planning nd why it doesn't work. The customer (in this case the club member) really does not want to support the club dining room given the stiff competition from local restaurants. Therefore the club's ruling body institutes a tax to cover the losses without concern for the profitability of the operation. If they were concerned with the profitability of the club dining roomthey would be instituting a tax but shutting it down because they wold nderstand it cannot compete with the other options. In all but the rarest of circumstances club dining will not be able to compete with restaurants for a whole hoat of reasons.

[Steve Kline]

When I was President of my club, I dropped the food minimum.  This was done because our margins on that spending were too low.  I needed to raise more revenue so I raised dues some and dropped the food minimum.  For my club the end result was a positive one.  The club got more net revenue and the restaurant was forced to cater more towards the customers who wanted to use instead of being forced to and focus more on its outside business.  The restaurant became a bit more lean and ended with better margins.  Most members were happy although the fine dining crowd wasn't.  They were used to a menu containing too many items to be cost efficient and staffing always on the stand by in case they wanted to show up.

In the end the membership didn't want to subsidize member fine dining.

As far as initiations they are the best way for a club to pay for additional projects and keep a member involved.  Dues should be kept low as possible as I believe occasional assessments should pay for upgrades and refurbishments.

The competition for members in my area has pretty much eliminated Initiation Fees in my area as the products are somewhat generic and its hard to compete against clubs that do not have an initiation.  This is not a good thing!
 
Form my experience clubs are no longer about being part of a community but looked upon like a consumer good, which also doesn't bode well for clubs in the future.  Certainly there are well heeled places that this isn't a factor but its certainly becoming more and more of one.

Dan

For me,if the golf course is of high quality, architecturally interesting, well maintained (firm and fast, not Augusta green with no weeds), and walkable that is incentive not to leave. Start messing with that and I am out of there.

[Steve Kline]

I find this thread very interesting looking at it from New Zealand.

Much like the UK, we pay a yearly one off membership fee. I know of maybe a couple of clubs in Auckland which charge what you guys refer to as initiation fees. Im not sure what they actually pay but would be surprised if it were more than $2-3000 NZ dollars. The introduction of this fee has only been a recent addition most probably inspired by the US influence. The yearly fee at these same clubs may be around $1800 max.

At my club, we have no initiation fee and pay a yearly sub of $430 NZ dollars. We have 500 members including men, women and juniors.

I would be very interested if people would be prepared to share how much their golf costs them. Im certainly not looking to judge anyone based on the information but rather I am just plainly curious. You could PM me the info if you didnt want to share on here. I wont use it in any way. If you could give an idea of a breakdown on things like food and beverage minimums and other associated costs and member numbers.

Grant

I a member at a club in Cincinnati, OH. It is not a desirable club because the course is built on the side of a hill and quite difficult. I cannot even imagine how many balls the average member loses. I joined without an initiation fee. My monthly dues are $253. There is one time fee of $25 for a handicap, $50 for the men's golf association, and $300 for the driving range. These are not optional. I always walk but almost all take carts because it is a difficult walk. All tournaments cost extra.

[David Harshbarger]

I have to agree on the food minimums and the ticky-tacky charges.  They really turned me off of some local clubs, who were charging extra for GHIN membership, lockers, and club storage.  Hmm, should I spend $80 to have my clubs stored? leads to the question "Why am I being asked if $80 is fair value for club storage?"

On the food charges, I wouldn't mind a minimum but I expect good value, and $8 kids plates did not represent value.  The thought of my kids running up $500-$1,000/month on burgers at the pool was over the top.

David-I don`t know how old your children are but I would think you would have some oversight in regard to their spending. As far as $8 kids plates is that expensive? As far as GHIN goes your local golf association does not provide that to the member clubs for free. Is $25 expensive? Is $80 a lot for the convenience of storing your clubs for a season? You are griping about small potato issues. Initiation fees and assessments are what need to be vetted before jumping in head first.

Tim, you are absolutely right, these are small potato issues.  That's what was disconcerting.  Of course I would pay the $80 storage fee.  And the $25 GHIN fee. And the $40 locker fee. My point was that these are broken out as line item extras at this club.  That had the effect of making me feel not like a member but like a mark.  This is a non-equity club.

As for the kids food, my kids can eat.  $8 plus drink plus snacks plus more drinks plus snacks....

David-Thanks for the reply. I know what you are saying in that no one likes to feel like they are being taken advantage of. I have a friend who got a monthly bill for frozen snickers bars and sodas for a month that was $$$. His 11 year old son overheard the member # given by the mom at the pool snack bar and the rest is club lore.

With my luck it would be Baby Ruth's 

[Scott Warren]

My club in Sydney has lowered the joining fee in recent years for younger members.

U22s pay $900, 23-24 pay $2000, 25-27 pay $3200, 28-29 pay $5000 and al other new members pay $8000.

I think for young guys, especially those who are married and even moreso have children, an entry fee is more of a hurdle (even if only a mental one) than a high annual fee, which you can justify as you're getting to play golf through that fee, but seeing the reasoning for a joining fee can be more difficult (and much harder to sell to the missus!!).

Lowering that fee for younger golfers seems to have had the effect of getting more guys into the club aged in their 20s who will stick around, and as a byproduct of that there seems to be a much more healthy contingent of good players than most other clubs I am familiar with.

The course redevelopment beginning on Thursday will produce the best practice area in Sydney - we hope - which I think will combine with the factors above to create even more of a pull for young players and better golfers.

[Kyle Harris]

Which would you rather? How much would you pay for either?

A member waiting for an under or adequately staffed service

OR

A overly staffed service waiting for a member to show up.

I'll take the former - especially for crap like moving my golf bag or making a hamburger.

Bill Brightly:

Why is your club attempting to compete in a market that is obviously oversaturated to begin with?

[Bill Brightly]

I'm not so young, but I haven't served on a club board.  If you saw my dashing figure you'd realize that I'm well aware of the culinary offerings in Manhattan.    So why does the membership require a full service food/bev operation?  Because it's always had one?  Because it helps pay for a larger clubhouse/ facilities than the club really needs these days? Because everyone wants their kids to have a place to have their wedding/sweet sixteen/confirmation/bar mitzvah?  I get it, I just don't get it.  My old club was run by a rich guy with an iron fist.  His wife wanted a full service club so he paid for a $6mm clubhouse with full banquet facilities.  They had a french chef on staff who obviously wasn't good enough to get a job at a real french restaurant and a full wait staff, but only served dinner on weekends during the season.  There wasn't a food minimum but the dues got to the choking point relative to the quality of the course/location for many when the proverbial sh*t hit the fan in '08.  

Jud,

I truly understand what you are saying. Let me try to explain it another way. Let's say you, me and 198 other guys (all with money) decide we want to start a brand new country club tomorrow. One of the first things we have to decide is what we are going to do about food. Humor me and say that you want a full service bar/restaurant/banquet hall model, ok? Now once we decide on that, we damn well better have good, fresh food every night, and a full staff to cook it and serve it, whether or not you, me and our friends show up to eat there EVERY night that we are open. We recognize that we have STIFF competition from nearby restaurants, and our wives are gonna want to eat at every damn new place their friends told them about...So how do we ensure a flow of paying customers to give this model a chance of breaking even? We establish minimums! And that is how almost every old line country club operates in the US. (A VERY small number of elite clubs simply split up the costs at the end of the year.)The huge club houses have already been built. The dining operations are in full swing, whether or not they actually break even...and it is next to impossible to go back. Take away the minimums and all you do is sink these restaurant operations further into the hole. Scale back on the dining options and you lose every house member and probably a significant number of the full members.

My guess is the club that you and I form will only have burgers and beer,  one helluva golf course, a modest locker room,  and no place to hold weddings. That is fine, but that is NOT the model in place at the vast majority of private clubs in the US, so pick your club accordingly.

What you are describing is essentially socialism/central planning nd why it doesn't work. The customer (in this case the club member) really does not want to support the club dining room given the stiff competition from local restaurants. Therefore the club's ruling body institutes a tax to cover the losses without concern for the profitability of the operation. If they were concerned with the profitability of the club dining roomthey would be instituting a tax but shutting it down because they wold nderstand it cannot compete with the other options. In all but the rarest of circumstances club dining will not be able to compete with restaurants for a whole hoat of reasons.

It works very well...that is why it employed by so many excellent country clubs. And I love  the socialism reference...US country clubs were founded by the ultimate capitalists....

[Dan Byrnes]

I find this thread very interesting looking at it from New Zealand.

Much like the UK, we pay a yearly one off membership fee. I know of maybe a couple of clubs in Auckland which charge what you guys refer to as initiation fees. Im not sure what they actually pay but would be surprised if it were more than $2-3000 NZ dollars. The introduction of this fee has only been a recent addition most probably inspired by the US influence. The yearly fee at these same clubs may be around $1800 max.

At my club, we have no initiation fee and pay a yearly sub of $430 NZ dollars. We have 500 members including men, women and juniors.

I would be very interested if people would be prepared to share how much their golf costs them. Im certainly not looking to judge anyone based on the information but rather I am just plainly curious. You could PM me the info if you didnt want to share on here. I wont use it in any way. If you could give an idea of a breakdown on things like food and beverage minimums and other associated costs and member numbers.

Grant

I am a member of the club where I previously served as President.  It got sold by the bank to new owners over the winter at a large discount to what the club owed the bank.  It is now being run as a semi private club, meaning there are members as well as it's open to non member play for a daily fee rate.  It cost $3200.00 annually.  It is in upstate NY so we typically have a 7 month season.  There are cheaper options in the area and more expensive ones.  The only additional costs are handicap fee and optional locker fee.  I get unlimited golf, preferred tee times, range, pool and dining facilities with no food minimum.  Course is well maintained, about $450k budget and has  full service pro shop.

Dan

[Bill Brightly]

Which would you rather? How much would you pay for either?

A member waiting for an under or adequately staffed service

OR

A overly staffed service waiting for a member to show up.

I'll take the former - especially for crap like moving my golf bag or making a hamburger.

Bill Brightly:

Why is your club attempting to compete in a market that is obviously oversaturated to begin with?

Did I say the market was oversaturated? This is North Jersey, population over 1,000,000 .  Clubs are NOT trying to compete with those restaurants, but rather, just reminding members to spend a portion of their dining dollars at the club to which they belong. It is really pretty simple and it works very well.

[Jeff Shelman]

I think the lowering dues vs. lowering/eliminating an initiation fee question totally varies by market and club. There isn't a right answer. And sometimes the answer might be both.

If you need an a good number of members, eliminating or greatly reducing the initiation fee is probably the quickest fix. At many clubs, getting those people to write a monthly check is what keeps things going. You need to have people using the facilities and spending money. A year ago, a club here in MSP that at one point had an initiation fee of more than $50K went free for 10 or 20 members to get numbers up. Another club that was trying to stay in the 5000-6000 range for initiation fee dropped to $1500 over the winter and picked up a bunch of members.

But you also need to keep your current members. There are a number of ways to do that. Not continuing to nickel and dime them is one of the ways. A couple of years ago at my club, the decision was made to make carts free for all members at all times. Has that kept members? I don't know, but probably.

In terms of minimums, they are part of the deal unfortunately. My club is $250/quarter and different members have their "quarter" rotations begin in different months. I like the quarter more than monthly because you can have a light month (especially over the winter) and not immediately get a bill. The good news at my club is that a 20 ounce Diet Coke at the turn ($2.10 with tax and service charge) counts against my membership just like a post-round beer or a steak in the dining room. I have very little making minimums during the golf season. During the down season, it is more difficult.

I will say one thing: When I went to my club for a bunch of holes after work last Friday night and the more casual downstairs bar by the locker rooms was packed with about 80 people drinking and eating off of an appetizer buffet. I like that.

[Adrian_Stiff]

I think the question should more be Dues v Fees v Quality. You cant lower Dues or Fees really unless you want to sacrifice quality, reducing your monthly dues clearly has the impact of less money to work with. Same really with your join up money. I expect most clubs could save 50% on staff and house cost run, yet might still be able to operate at 90% of the previous level..... ADMIN IS THE BIG CHOP AREA.

[Rob Rigg]

Are you a golf club or a country club?

What is your monthly nut to keep the lights on?

If you are a club charging huge initiations out of "prestige" then it might be time to take a reality pill - if your monthly vig is making members leave then maybe you should drop it.

If you want to attract new members then understand the current economic situation and work with them if possible.

The GBI model has always seemed more sustainable to me - from experience - but it is so contra to how things work in the US that it is unlikely that such a line of reasoning would ever become reality.

We will never be able to grow the game in the US if it is essentially impossible for younger generations to buy in to a private club - 6 hours rounds get tiring in a hurry - public golf is great if you are incredibly patient but if you need to play a quick am or pm round then a private club is your only option on this side of the pond.

[Sean_A]

This thread makes me very glad that I play my golf in the UK. To almost every golfer in the UK much of what you are expected to pay to be a member of a golf club in the US is almost beyond belief.

In the UK for the most part we pay our yearly subscription fee (most golf clubs don't even have a joining fee these days) and off you go.

I'm a member at a fairly prestigious Mackenzie designed club in the North West of England and if you're 21 to 29 years of age you pay the equivalent of just over $500 per year to be a full fledged 7 day member of the club. The yearly cost if your're 30 or over rises to about $1300. No joining fee, no down payment, no minimum spent on food, drink etc.

You don't need to do anything else but turn up and play golf. Of course with the golf being so reasonable you tend to find the restaurant and bar busy at the end of your round.

To answer the op's question, lower dues and get rid of other fees - it's going to happen you just don't know it yet.

I don't know enough about your area, but unless you have a ton of members, I don't know how you can maintain a course at those rates and have it be a premium place to play.  Private clubs in my area are spending 400,000 to 900,000 dollars a year just to maintain a course that is typically buried under snow for 5 months a year?  I am sure the costs in other area are much, much higher.  It seems to me the minimum that a club needs in revenue is 1 million to function and if you have lots of grounds, offer premium services and have nice amenities such as tennis, practice area and pool the price can be much, much  higher.  At my club it costs $80,000 to operate the pool with the costs involved?

Really hard to compare when your not comparing apples to apples.

Dan

Dan

I dlon't know of a "premium service" club in the UK.  Even at the venerable Muirfield they make guys stand in line for a drink and the buffet.  This is one huge difference between the US  and UK.  The second huge difference is course maintenance.  Most golfers don't worry about much except the greens unless things get really bad which usually means a mini-drought and many clubs won't spend the money to counter that anyway.  Plus, the greens are kept at much a much slower pace than in the US.  I hear all the time in the UK about greens rolling at 9 and I know its not true - though I think 9ish to be the perfect compromise between design, maintenance costs, player fun and pace of play.  Third, most UK clubs typically have at least double the membership size.  Many American clubs worry about the busy days still leaving opportunities for a large percentage of members to get out whether or not if they want to.  There is no chance that a large percentage of members are getting out on a Saturday morning in the UK, but usually the membership breakdown accomodates these members at other times of the week.  Finally, the staff size is far less at UK clubs bith in terms of maintenance and in the hiuse/office.

Ciao

[Adam Lawrence]

This thread makes me very glad that I play my golf in the UK. To almost every golfer in the UK much of what you are expected to pay to be a member of a golf club in the US is almost beyond belief.

In the UK for the most part we pay our yearly subscription fee (most golf clubs don't even have a joining fee these days) and off you go.

I'm a member at a fairly prestigious Mackenzie designed club in the North West of England and if you're 21 to 29 years of age you pay the equivalent of just over $500 per year to be a full fledged 7 day member of the club. The yearly cost if your're 30 or over rises to about $1300. No joining fee, no down payment, no minimum spent on food, drink etc.

You don't need to do anything else but turn up and play golf. Of course with the golf being so reasonable you tend to find the restaurant and bar busy at the end of your round.

To answer the op's question, lower dues and get rid of other fees - it's going to happen you just don't know it yet.

I don't know enough about your area, but unless you have a ton of members, I don't know how you can maintain a course at those rates and have it be a premium place to play.  Private clubs in my area are spending 400,000 to 900,000 dollars a year just to maintain a course that is typically buried under snow for 5 months a year?  I am sure the costs in other area are much, much higher.  It seems to me the minimum that a club needs in revenue is 1 million to function and if you have lots of grounds, offer premium services and have nice amenities such as tennis, practice area and pool the price can be much, much  higher.  At my club it costs $80,000 to operate the pool with the costs involved?

Really hard to compare when your not comparing apples to apples.

Dan

Dan - you're right, of course, that the UK to US comparison is apples to oranges. Our clubs don't have pools, don't have tennis and often don't have much more than bar food. We might have five or six hundred members in a successful club (this is low by European standards - you should see the membership numbers at lots of clubs in Germany, for example), and our courses are generally maintained by crews of five guys or thereabouts. We don't (usually) have the extreme weather that affects much of the US, so greenkeeping is a lower input business here. It is just a different world. But it still freaks us out that Americans are prepared to pay so much for golf!

[archie_struthers]

 

Given the difficulty in getting younger members to come upwith large initiation fees , and knowing you can't waive them without those who payed being indignant, just extend the payout over multiple years.  As long as needed!

[Dave Givnish]

It sounds like the perfect club is a golf club with a solid course, no outside catering or golf functions, a reasonable initiation fee, moderate dues, no food and beverage minimum, an option to walk or ride with or without a caddie, and a restaurant that serves a good sandwich and a beer or whisky.

Interesting comments on the food and beverage minimums.  I belonged to a club in Philadelphia that had a simple but great old clubhouse.  Club leaders (all of whom are now dead or departed from the club) thought that a new modern facility with a big catering facility was the path to success.  The club now has to have an outing almost every week and books events like a catering hall just to cover the staff costs and building maintenance.  Give me a golf club with a small building that doesn't have outings every day!

[Adrian_Stiff]

It sounds like the perfect club is a golf club with a solid course, no outside catering or golf functions, a reasonable initiation fee, moderate dues, no food and beverage minimum, an option to walk or ride with or without a caddie, and a restaurant that serves a good sandwich and a beer or whisky.

Interesting comments on the food and beverage minimums.  I belonged to a club in Philadelphia that had a simple but great old clubhouse.  Club leaders (all of whom are now dead or departed from the club) thought that a new modern facility with a big catering facility was the path to success.  The club now has to have an outing almost every week and books events like a catering hall just to cover the staff costs and building maintenance.  Give me a golf club with a small building that doesn't have outings every day!

We run at 1000 members, half of which are $250 per year then $30 per round, the rest are roughly $1500 per year for unlimited golf, $750 to join but they can pay over 4 years, we charge $10 for a nice bar meal $4.50 for a beer, range balls are free, a cart is $12 for a member, he can have as much or as little as he wants he can bring guests for $36 when he wants.... we have 36 holes and a 9 hole par 3 and we have roughly 400 outings per year. The outings keep the fees at half the price they would be without them, an average outing is 16 players paying $70 each, for the golf, coffee and a meal. We are a UK club, I have very few staff except on the course. I reckon I could distribute $400,000 per annum back to shareholders .

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