[Ian_L]

I Bring this up because we are finishing our last course at Mission Hills, built entirely on lava rock, where we imposed a sand dune style golf course on the site. A little biased here, but I think it sells itself as well, if not better then Straits and Shadow Creek.

Ryan,

Looks like a fun course to play.  This is what I'd imagine a minimalist golf course on the moon would look like, minus the trees.

[Tim Leahy]

Stone Eagle in Palm Springs is an amazing created golf landscape. I still can't believe TD built a course there.
The Quarry course in Riverside is pretty amazing too.

[jonathan_becker]

Considering that it took 17 years to finish with the engineering and labor involved, I'll say Pete Dye Golf Club.

It's the only course I've ever played in the mountains that really isn't a mountain course.

[Mark Bourgeois]

My vote is for Ailsa. Ross did okay (re)converting that airbase, yes?

[Ronald Montesano]

The Old Course

[Michael Whitaker]

Kingsbarns in the UK
The Ocean Course at Kiawah in the US

[Garland Bayley]

I guess it depends on what is meant by "created" Golf Landscape. The Rawls Course was a completely created landscape from flat land. At least that is my understanding. Whereas, Chambers Bay was routed over an existing landscape. The creation of the landscape was not done by Jones II, but by the mining.

Monarch Dunes looks to me like a "created" Golf Landscape. However, I don't know the history to be sure of that.

[Tim Gavrich]

Let us not omit Bulls Bay here, where Mike Strantz basically built a 70 foot high hill, placed the clubhouse on top, and routed the golf course on and around.  Awesome place.

[Bart Bradley]

One of the best, not yet mentioned, may be Fancourt Links in South Africa.  Hard to believe that it was once a flat airfield.

Bart

[Tom_Doak]

Streamsong is a "created" landscape ... but the landscape was created mostly by the mining company, and not by us, with the exception of a couple of holes on Bill Coore's 18.

[Ryan Farrow]

Anyone surprised with how long this list is getting?

Also, note how good some of these golf courses are....... does this not seem like a successful business model?  Would be interesting to see how many of these courses are stable and/or making money...



What are the biggest failures? 





Also, lets not forget a big earth move does not necessarily mean a "created" golf "landscape"..... in my eyes.... since I started the thread....   

So I would say definitely no to Stone Eagle, Rawls course is borderline..... I would say a place like the heathland course at myrtle beach (that is not a healthland course) is more fitting for this category.....  or Streamsong, but as you said Tom, the mining company did the creating.



I like Calusa Pines, TPC Sawgrass, & Kingsbarn..... & Bayonne  for various reasons. 

[Tom_Doak]

Ryan:

I can't see the distinction you are making between The Rawls Course and The Legends.  We moved more earth at The Rawls Course and planted a lot more trees, but the process was very similar.

Your premise that this is a successful business model is interesting.  There are hundreds and hundreds of similar projects in recent years, but most of them are compromised by housing -- for example, every course at PGA West is a created landscape.  The only people who spend this kind of money to build JUST A GOLF COURSE are generally in huge markets where they can afford it, so, they're reasonably likely to be successful projects -- and if they aren't, then you don't describe them as a "created" landscape, because the transformation was not successful.

Still, there are a lot of projects that you'd have to call misses -- The Wynn, from what I've heard, did not generate the same fan base as Shadow Creek.  What about the Desmond Muirhead courses in Japan, or what was that Fazio course in southeast Florida with the big waterfall?  Or how's The Donald's success rate? 

[Ryan Farrow]

I guess the distinction I am trying to make is that the Rawls was trying to be an interesting golf course in Texas on flat land. Heathlands was trying to be a linksy-ish kind of thing in Myrtle Beach.

TPC Sawgrass was a "Stadium" Course with actual grass bleachers, in a former swampland.

Bayonne, a linksland built on an island of scrap metal and dredged sand in the Jersey Bay

I am thinking more of a total transformation of sites...  a focus on the landscape then the actual golf if you get my drift.....  I wouldn't say, just because a  ton of earth was moved means its a "created" Golf Landscape...... ..... I don't know, maybe The Rawls fits? If it is so different from the surrounding environment.... If an average golfer walks up to the tee, or drives through the entry gate, and says, "where did this come from".......

[Tim Nugent]

Ryan, I would add just about every Landfill conversion course to your list. Man-made not once but twice! And in the case of Harborside in Chicago, 3 -4 times (Garbage, then Flyash, then Sludge, then clay cap/golfcourse).  I still remeber the contractor wondering if they screwed something up when they built a 36" dia storm drainage inlet 20' upin the air. "Nope" I said, "eventually that will be the low point".  "That's valuable airspace we're selling, we got to pay for this course somehow and $50/truckload tipping fees is the way we're doing it!".

[Terry Lavin]

Streamsong is a "created" landscape ... but the landscape was created mostly by the mining company, and not by us, with the exception of a couple of holes on Bill Coore's 18.

I predict this place will really do well when it opens, despite the out of the way location.  Very exciting possibilities based on what I've seen thus far.

[George Pazin]

I am thinking more of a total transformation of sites...  a focus on the landscape then the actual golf if you get my drift.....  I wouldn't say, just because a  ton of earth was moved means its a "created" Golf Landscape...... ..... I don't know, maybe The Rawls fits? If it is so different from the surrounding environment.... If an average golfer walks up to the tee, or drives through the entry gate, and says, "where did this come from".......

I can't see how Rawls wouldn't fit. If it doesn't, then I think maybe a complete restart on your definition is needed. I'm not trying to be a jerk, just saying I don't understand your distinctions. Having never even been to Myrtle Beach, I'd guess Rawls is far more created than Legends/Heathland. In fact, I'd guess Rawls is right there with Shadow Creek as two of the most created courses in the US.

Which brings to mind the desert courses in Dubai - those would be almost 100% created, no? Your pix look a lot more compelling than GC's coverage of the Dubai Classic.

[Lester George]

Ryan,

How much (cubic yards) sand did you import to create your dunes?  Just curious as I may well have to do the same.  Also, do you know the cost per yard?

Lester

[archie_struthers]

 


Bayonne is really really good........Eric Bergstol did a fabulous job building this golf course. If he was a "name" guy they would be praisng this place way way more IMHO  .....    

[Tom_Doak]

I don't know, maybe The Rawls fits? If it is so different from the surrounding environment.... If an average golfer walks up to the tee, or drives through the entry gate, and says, "where did this come from".......

Ryan,

You owe it to yourself to get to Lubbock someday.  I would disagree with George on the impact of the course, but it certainly has turned heads among the locals.  There's flat, and then there is Lubbock-flat and open.  It's different enough that people want to have their weddings out there -- even though there is not a clubhouse!

[archie_struthers]

 

Lester don't know your site or job but can you dig down and not go up with the dunes.  It could be more cost effective.

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