Galloway National #7 more strategic failure by Fazio

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

This should be a great hole if the fairway properly used the land.  Not sure if the land flow is natural, but the fairway has a shoulder in the left middle.  Anything that lands oon the left shoulder will bound off the fairway into bunkers, ect.  Past the bunkers on the left is a lake that could have brought wonderful strategic opportunities into play. The tree on the left is very much a double jeopardy hazard.
Because of the current setup, the right side is the only angle of approach.  This tends to bring the left bunker more into play, rather than the right closely mown areas. Green favors an approach from the left, but not exactly an ideal tee placement.

 

[Doug Braunsdorf]

I have a few questions here:

1. What is the purpose of the lone tree in the middle of the hole?  (To be fair, one can ask Kelly Blake Moran the same question about 10 Lederach). 
2.  The long axis of the green appears to point to the lake. (Is this true?)
3.  The tongue of fairway short of the green-yes, the greensite is attractive, but the longer side points towards the pond.  Is this more eye candy rather than functional architectural feature?
4.  Does the green tilt as much left to right as it appears?  I'm trying to look at an aerial, these pictures, and Joe Bausch's excellent pictures to figure out if Fazio is asking for an ideal shot shape off the tee and into the green-such as Pete Dye sometimes calls for-
the fairway appears to cant right to left--is this a cut off the tee and a draw into the green? 

It just seems more and more like there is such a great setting here, this entire property, and it could have been so much more.  Am I wrong in observing this? 

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

Doug,
Your observations are spot on.  The tree should be prepared for a fireplace, and the fairway should be extended all the way to the lake.  The ideal angle of attack should involve a flirtation with the lake and the safe tee shot should result in a more difficult approach shot.  This course is full of such strategic misses, but the course raters seem to be blind to such obvious weaknesses.

[Greg Chambers]

Blinded by the white sand, no doubt.

[Mark McKeever]

I still think there is plenty of strategy here.  The pond is NOT that far left from the left side of the fairway.  In fact, one person from our group challenged the left side of the fairway and hit the tree, bounding back into the water.  If you bail out right and dont execute well, youre in the bunkers off the tee, and its a very difficult recovery from an odd angle to a green that you can't see over the bunker lip.  If you lay to the right off the tee, hold back a bit and dont hit a driver but you will have about 160-175 in.  You can hit a driver down the left side and have a good look right up the throat of the green with a wedge in your hand.  Good strategy is present here IMO.

Mark

[Adam Clayman]

How about the size of that bunker? Talk about slowing play to not only rake, but also to walk all the way around it, if you didn't want to spend 5 minutes raking.

[Doug Braunsdorf]

I still think there is plenty of strategy here.  The pond is NOT that far left from the left side of the fairway.  In fact, one person from our group challenged the left side of the fairway and hit the tree, bounding back into the water.  If you bail out right and dont execute well, youre in the bunkers off the tee, and its a very difficult recovery from an odd angle to a green that you can't see over the bunker lip.  If you lay to the right off the tee, hold back a bit and dont hit a driver but you will have about 160-175 in.  You can hit a driver down the left side and have a good look right up the throat of the green with a wedge in your hand.  Good strategy is present here IMO.

Mark

Mark, You all played this a few months back; albeit, without leaves on the trees.  Seeing as you and I are about the same distance off the tee, how does the tree come into play? 

What is the purpose of the tree?  I know my part of NJ has a lot of regulation from the Pinelands commission, but something tells me this is something else.

What clubs did you hit when playing this hole?

Would you hit driver here, or something less?

I see there is a bit of shoulder, middle-right of fairway.  Does this serve to funnel balls back to the center?

I'm not bashing just b/c of who and what this is, I think I am asking legitimate questions. 

[John Shimony]

Hey Doug, Happy Easter.  I was the unfortunate soul who hit the tree with my drive and ended up in the drink.  I hit a three wood off the tee, can't remember if it was the middle tee or a little forward, definitely not the back tee.  I tugged it a wee bit but it was a nice fade that hit the right side of the tree.  It would have ended up just in front of the bunker I presume.  Bausch hit a wedge from just in front of the large bunker and almost holed it.  So the hole is three wood - wedge for our ilk and from the back probably driver - wedge.  So while he may be calling for a draw off the tee I presume he is not asking for a fade with a short wedge. 

[Kyle Harris]

Every hole has strategy. This hole's strategy is just as complex as a more "risk/reward" type of set up where the bunker is positioned in an area where the ideal angle from the green is positioned.

That is, not a very complex strategy. The word is overused so much these days that it's lost any significant meaning.

[MikeJones]

I'm not familiar with the hole nor have read the comments about it but to try and make every hole a strategic masterpiece would be a mistake.

There's nothing wrong with penal holes or what some people have even called 'anti strategy'. Variation is more important.

[Mark McKeever]

Doug,

I hit three wood (I think) into the right bunker.  The ball ended up on the lip, and I couldnt do much more than advance it out.  Joe (i think he was the second one who ended up over there) was in the bottom of the bunker and couldnt hit the green either though.  Its a penal bunker if you miss it over there.

If you play from the back tees, I think you need to hit a driver here though.

Mark

[Doug Braunsdorf]

John, Happy Easter to you and yours as well.  How far does the tree overhang into the left part of the fairway?  Is there any benefit to being on the left, right, or center of fairway to approach the green?  That is unfortunate, hitting the tree and bounding in the water.  Double penalties aren't fun, especially ones such as this that have no recovery option. 

(Whereas, A-2 at HVCC, recovery is possible from the bunkers short of the green, right side.  Very difficult, but not catastrophic). 

It  appears to me that left, right, or center in the fairway, the player is faced with an odd angle to the green.  Is this true?  I have not seen this hole in person yet. 
 
Kyle, you're hedging.  What do you see here?

MikeJones, where in this thread did anyone say anything about making every hole a strategic masterpiece?  Nowhere. 

Robert Deruntz, what is your thought process for playing this hole, as a low handicapper (or, scratch?)

[JNC Lyon]

Is the better angle from the left side?  The green tilts hard from left to right, meaning that when the pin is on the left the better angle would seem to be from the right side.  The golfer should flirt with the right-hand bunker to get a better angle into the green.  When the pin is on the right, then the golfer should flirt with the water and tree down the left hand side.  I agree, the tree takes away from the hole a bit.  However, a drive that is busted down the left side should be in fine shape.

I think it is a solid par four, though maybe not the best hole on the golf course.  It would be better with more width to make it more strategic.

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

The green does not slope severely from leff to right, but middle to front with less than 2 degrees left to right (I used the electronic level in quite a few places and this green and the next were well charted).  The back half is fairly flat sloping gently left to right.  The best angle should be from the left--these greens are wonderfully maintained at concrete firmness, so some yardage needs to be accounted for a well struck shot to stop, not to mention a slight mishit with less spin.  In the practice round a well hit shot from the right found the left bunker.  The strategic failure can be fixed by extending the fairway to the lake.  A clearer understanding of the current weakness can be found reading Wayne and Tom Paul's wonderful new book--Flynn bullt quite a few holes on similar topography with much greater results

[Mark McKeever]

As John has stated, I think the pin location dictates which side you ideally would favor off the tee but the narowness of the fairway makes the difference very small.  Just aim down the middle and swing.

If I remember correctly, this was one of Joe's favorite holes on the course. 
Mark

[archie_struthers]

 

Having played Galloway a lot , the 7th hole never jumped out as being unfair . If anything it's one of the easier holes on the golf course. Most low handicappers will hit a hybrid or three wood off the tee here, and the bunker on the right isn't super penal if you happen to fan one wide of the fairway. It's pretty obvious left is dead, so why would you challenge the tree    Given the cant of the green , there is no real advantage to hitting it there, and the shot is slighlty blind if you nuke it past the tree due to the size of the fronting bunker.   

I'd agree that a few holes  (greens) on the back are a little wacky , but #7  doesn't stand out for me as bad design!

[Joe Bausch]

If I remember correctly, this was one of Joe's favorite holes on the course. 
Mark

It was one of my few pars on the day!  I pushed a drive a bit and ended up way up in the face of the right bunker.  Even though I think I was only maybe 110 out, the deep bunker made me play out almost sideways.  Then hit a sand wedge to kick in distance.  Just another way to make a par!

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

Unfair was a term not used by me.  This hole is being criticized because of its failure to create quality strategic value in spite of having superb golfing terrain!

[Ronald Montesano]

A) What would you suggest, Robert? To which end are you leading us with your opinion on strategic failure?

B) Driver wedge or 3 wood 8 iron? Sounds like a manageable hole...how wide is the fairway, from bunker to tree?

[Brad Isaacs]

I had the opportunity to play GallowY last Oct. I believed the tree made the hole.  The closer you ah get to the tree the easier the second shot becomes until it is impossible because of tree or water,  Or play to the right. It is your choice. I enjoyed it slot. Good hole.

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

Last spring,in the practice round, the hole was downwind (greensided in 2 the previous hole) and I played rescue then 9 from the back tee with the ball landing pretty much middle green coming from the right, and the ball ended up in the middle of the bunkert.  In the tournament the wind had switched and the hole played quartered into from the left.  I overhooked my tee ball and was between the tree and water--perfect angle off a poor drive! One player hit a left center drive and in spite of the wind ended up partially blocked fighting a pushing wind.
The remedy is for a really wide fairway that lulls the player into driving wide right, while the optimum line will flirt with water on the left with the tree removed.  A small aside, the tee could be lowered 5 feet so that visibility is not perfect

[Mark McKeever]

If I remember correctly, this was one of Joe's favorite holes on the course. 
Mark

It was one of my few pars on the day!  I pushed a drive a bit and ended up way up in the face of the right bunker.  Even though I think I was only maybe 110 out, the deep bunker made me play out almost sideways.  Then hit a sand wedge to kick in distance.  Just another way to make a par!

What are your thoughts on the strategy?

Mark