The Future of El Boqueron

[David Edel]

Hey guys,

A brief update on the situation of El Boqueron.  A couple of months ago our financing partner died of lung cancer.  This was one of the reasons the project was on hold.  This partner held a second position to a previous project designated for the same property, and was making interest payments to save his positon.  After the down turn in land values they came to position that they owed more than the property was worth and walked away from the project.  A couple weeks ago the property was forclosed on and is the hands of lender. 
So, at present I am trying to find interested partners to see this thing through.  The lender is very nice and willing to work with me.  Mike DeVries is still my architect, and Don Mahaffey is still on board.  Nothing has changed but the need for new financing parnters and fresh relative ideas.  I believe this to be a great opportunity for someone or a group of people to create something great.

I am also open to the idea to move the project somewhere else and start over.   In my wildest dreams i would never thought this would so difficult to build a Mackenzie using original plans.  So much about golf has lost its way, and this is a great opportunity to create something very special with our heads on straight.  I wish someone would come forward and we can "field of dreams" this thing into existence.  All the components are there ready to get rolling.

So, with this all being said, any ideas would be greatly appreciated.  I am currently in Argentina returning on April 22nd.  If you have any questions one can contact me at 512-585-7936 or get in touch with Mike DeVries.

[Jeff_Brauer]

David,

Sorry to hear that news.  What strikes me is that a man with health problems was still so optimistic to keep plugging away on a dream project.

I recently worked with a 93 year old man to develop a 10 year master plan for a failed golf course he had just purchased.  Gotta love that optimism, and admire it wherever it exists.

[Bill_McBride]

I recently worked with a 93 year old man to develop a 10 year master plan for a failed golf course he had just purchased.  Gotta love that optimism, and admire it wherever it exists.

I hope he has a solid succession plan!

David, it's a shame the timing of El Boqueron was so bad.  The plan and back story are just too good to be stymied permanently by this unfortunate economy.

[Jud_T]

David,

Sorry to hear the news.  If and when I'm in a position to help, I'll do whatever I can to help make this happen.  It's still a great idea, plan and GCA (x2), and things are slowly clearing in the real estate market, so keep the faith!

[Patrick Kiser]

David,

Sorry to hear this as well.  I was wondering where things were at, since you've been quiet.

There's lots of sand in ... Nebraska.   

Still using and loving that putter you made for me.  Can't say I'm any better with it, but I will not trade it for anything.

[Niall C]

David,

I hope you keep plugging away and finally see the project through to fruition. Can you remind everyone where you were looking to site it.

Thanks

Niall

[David Edel]

Everyone,

Thanks for your encouragement.  Niall, we are looking to put the project in a town about 40 minutes north from downtown Austin, Texas.  The climate and area are very good for golf.  The north west area of Austin does not have many courses, though we a Nicklaus design called Cimmarron.  Almost all of courses in our area utilize broken ground giving the better land to housing develpments.  Very little of the courses are walkable, and if they are flatter have hundreds of yards to the next hole.

I have not played Austin Golf Club, but hear that it is a very fine course.  So, though there are many courses, none would have the feel and character of a Mackenzie.  Our land has the same feel as the Sandbelt in Melbourne.  Sorry to say we do not have the sandy soil, but the look of our oaks look similiar to Tea trees of the sandbelt.  Mike and I went to Melbourne a couple years ago because the climate has similiar qualities.  It was important to see how a Mackenzie course looked and played with hot weather grasses.  Almost all his work is in cool to moderate climates so they have a different look and feel.   I have a book called the Sandbelt, and when I show people holes a Kingston Heath or Royal, they say wow that looks like the property. 

I love the Austin area and would love to see it built here.  We can play golf all year and it would be a shame to see it built somewhere that it was only open 4 to 6 months.  I had an opportunity to put it near Jackson Hole, but declined the offer because I felt it was the wrong place.  I have two other plans, so I have to do the first correctly or the others lose their potential.  I would love to put all three together and create a one of a kind project, but it seems that may be stretching it. 

thanks for the interest,


David

[Peter Pallotta]

David - all good things to you and the project. FWIW, one man's opinion (that of a very average and little travelled golfer): do whatever you can to keep the course in the Austin area, as originally planned.  I bet there are a lot of people just like me (and especially those who are younger than me, n their late 20s and 30s) who, if they ever thought of traveling to Texas, would do so only if the destination was Austin. The music/cultural/nightlife there makes it an appealing while still affordable destination.

You have a great team, and a great idea.  Hang on.

Peter 

[hick]

David, I played Avery Ranch last year and agree that the live oak trees have the same look as the Sanbelt courses. How far is the property from Avery. You are spot on as the walks from green to tee on many of the courses around Austin are brutal to say the least.
Love that Salt Lick BBQ.

[Steve_Roths]

David,

Your line about golf losing it's way is so very true.  I got an email today about MacGregor golf shoes from Golfsmith.  Talk about just destroying a brand. 

As for your course, have you pitched Michael Dell about the project.  He has deep pockets and is local.

SR

[Mike_DeVries]

This is such a cool project and I appreciate everyone's enthusiasm.  I just want to confirm David's commitment to make this a great club that will honor MacKenzie's vision and that of the original developer, Sr. Anchorena in Argentina, to create a wonderful course and experience.  David's knowledge and experience in Argentina for almost 20 years will be seen in the nature of the club atmosphere.  What is could be cooler than finishing up 18 and walking over to the asado (traditional Argentine BBQ on the open ground - flavors the meat like you can't imagine!) and grabbing a nice couple of bites on your way back to the 1st tee for another 18?!?

Cheers,
Mike

[Bill_McBride]

I like the Mike Dell idea.  Anybody know if he is a golfer?  He is HUGE in Austin.  Our friends' kids go to a pre-school he funds because it's sponsored by his synagogue.

[Steve_Roths]

I am not sure if he is a golfer but I know he belongs to a Discovery Land project down in Hawaii.

If it was me, I would pitch it to his people as a way to keep Austin locals working and I would offer to make his investment percentage count toward the local Make A Wish or other charity.

Get him to put up $5mm and have the cash flow/dividend paid out to the charity year after year. 

It's a win/win/win.

[Steve Lang]

   well, I'd much rather join a club on the north side of austin than one a plane ride and 3 hours away..  so.. how much capital is really needed to make it happen?

is there any way to use the Whispering Pines model?

[David Edel]

Hey Guys,

Just digging out from my trip to Argentina.  I had a great visit with my friend Roberto DeVicenzo, looking great at 88.  Still flushes it like the champion he is.  He hits and says "I can't hit it any better, where did it go".  Great stuff.   

As for Mike Dell, this idea crossed my mind.  From what I understand he plays but is not serious about golf with all his other interests.  I am not sure he would be interested, and I am sure everyone hits him up when they have a great idea.  It is also hard to get the red phone number.

I want to run an idea by everyone to see if it floats.  It would be much easier to find someone with deep pockets to fund this project, but there may be more potential in numbers.  I believe most clubs in the past were created through founder groups.  These initial founders as a group produce enough start up capital to get the ball rolling.  My feeling is this project as an idea is a throw back to everything from course up keep, playing characteristics, club philosophies, golf for golf not housing.  I think the way to get this done is develop a founders program of people that get it and want to create something very special. 

So, is it feasible to get 50 people to put up lets say 100k to 125k to be a founder.  I think that these founders would have a structured equity in the club, and benefits that would make it easy to get involved.  Let say never paying a due for life, transferable to family.  There could be other incidentals that make a package very attractive. 

Give me your thoughts and maybe some examples of other projects that have been successful with the same idea. 

Thanks for your help,


David

[Jud_T]

I like the idea David but I think it depends primarily on the Austin market for private club memberships.  Can't see too many national guys plunking down that kind of cash these days.

[George Freeman]

David, Mike, Joe et al,

This is hands down one of the most exciting projects in the pipeline...period.  Simply wishing you good luck wouldn't begin to sum up how much I hope this thing comes to fruition.  

David:

I don't know how "exotic" you're willing to go with financing/capital sources, but here is a link to a past GCA thread that I think you should at least take a quick spin through:

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,33827.0/

Not everything in there is applicable (maybe not anything!), but I think there are some good "outside the box" ideas for getting a golf course off the ground.  It appears a decent chunk of start-up capital could be obtained from a relatively small group of GCA.com contributors (there was certainly a lot of interest in the thread above!) in exchange for fairly minimal national membership-like privileges, especially considering that the majority would be coming from far away.  This could provide enough gun powder to get the course built and operational so that "full" member prospects could be brought in and hopefully signed on (with higher initiation/dues to cover operating expenses and correspondingly higher member privileges).

This is probably wishful thinking, but I thought I would throw it out there!

Idea #2:  Get Mike Keiser involved.

I'll be following the progress of El Boqueron with bated breath.

Best,

George  

David,

The above is a post I made in a previous El Boqueron thread.  I think you’re on the right track, but as Jud states, you would be leaning heavily on the Austin market with the “founder’s” down stroke that high.

My idea was to make that initial number quite a bit larger (and therefore make the $$ lower), with some sort of national-like membership benefits to go along with it.  That way you could tap into a much larger geographic area.

There are a lot of good ideas in the link in the quote above.

Best,

George

[Jason Elwell]

David I think this is a fantastic idea. I think the uniqueness of the project would attract the number of people you wish to get. Please keep us updated!

[Jud_T]

You could have Full Founding Member and National Founding Member classes.  If a National Guy ($25k?) moved to the area for more than 30 days a year he'd have the option to post the balance to become a founding member...

[Garland Bayley]

Any news here?

[Jim Eder]

What about Julian Robertson?

[Dave McCollum]

David, Mike, Joe et al,

This is hands down one of the most exciting projects in the pipeline...period.  Simply wishing you good luck wouldn't begin to sum up how much I hope this thing comes to fruition.  

David:

I don't know how "exotic" you're willing to go with financing/capital sources, but here is a link to a past GCA thread that I think you should at least take a quick spin through:

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,33827.0/

Not everything in there is applicable (maybe not anything!), but I think there are some good "outside the box" ideas for getting a golf course off the ground.  It appears a decent chunk of start-up capital could be obtained from a relatively small group of GCA.com contributors (there was certainly a lot of interest in the thread above!) in exchange for fairly minimal national membership-like privileges, especially considering that the majority would be coming from far away.  This could provide enough gun powder to get the course built and operational so that "full" member prospects could be brought in and hopefully signed on (with higher initiation/dues to cover operating expenses and correspondingly higher member privileges).

This is probably wishful thinking, but I thought I would throw it out there!

Idea #2:  Get Mike Keiser involved.

I'll be following the progress of El Boqueron with bated breath.

Best,

George  

David,

The above is a post I made in a previous El Boqueron thread.  I think you’re on the right track, but as Jud states, you would be leaning heavily on the Austin market with the “founder’s” down stroke that high.

My idea was to make that initial number quite a bit larger (and therefore make the $$ lower), with some sort of national-like membership benefits to go along with it.  That way you could tap into a much larger geographic area.

There are a lot of good ideas in the link in the quote above.

Best,

George

That link didn't work for me.  Could easily be operator error, but I don't think so.

[Garland Bayley]

Dave,

If it is an OT finance thread, it likely was deleted.

[Dave McCollum]

Thanks, Garland.

[Mark Provenzano]

Guessing this was probably linked/referenced in a previous thread, but it's a fascinating read for those of us that are new around here (and new to the topic):

http://www.travelandleisure.com/articles/golf-the-lost-mackenzie/1