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Jim Colton

Best 36-hole private clubs?
« on: April 13, 2011, 04:22:18 AM »
The Ballyneal announcement got me thinking, what are the best 36-hole private clubs in terms of (actual or approximate) Doak scale?

Royal Melbourne
Winged Foot
Monterey Peninsula
Pronghorn(?)

what else?

Edit: Keeping Score -

Royal Melbourne 16 (10 & 6)
Winged Foot 15 (9 & 6)
Sunningdale 15 (8 & 7)
Baltusrol 14 (8 & 6)
Walton Heath 14 (8 & 6)

« Last Edit: April 13, 2011, 11:00:53 AM by Jim Colton »
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Scott Warren

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Re: Best 36-hole private clubs?
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2011, 04:28:45 AM »
Jim,

I've wondered this for a while, thanks for starting the thread.

Royal Melbourne has to be hard to beat - one World Top 20, the other World Top 100.

Sunningdale probably deserves a shout (both GBI Top 25), as do Walton Heath (both GBI Top 100) and The Berkshire (both GBI Top 75).
« Last Edit: April 13, 2011, 04:31:21 AM by Scott Warren »
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Ronald Montesano

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Re: Best 36-hole private clubs?
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2011, 06:10:27 AM »
The one north of Toronto, DPGA

http://www.devilspulpit.com/

Both are Hurdzan courses; have not played there but sounds like Devil's Playground for golfers.
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Tom_Doak

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Re: Best 36-hole private clubs?
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2011, 06:26:00 AM »
There's a list of ten in the back of The Confidential Guide.
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Bill_McBride

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Re: Best 36-hole private clubs?
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2011, 08:21:30 AM »
Olympia Fields doesn't get a shout from the Chicago guy?  Or Medinah? (36+ there I know)

Olympic Club another, Merion too.
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Joe Bausch

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Re: Best 36-hole private clubs?
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2011, 08:31:58 AM »
There are a couple of obvious ones in the SE PA area (Merion, Philly Cricket, etc), but one I did a quick photo tour a couple of weeks ago that gained little traction was Stonewall (a Doak/Hanse and Doak course):

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,47891.0.html
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Mark McKeever

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Re: Best 36-hole private clubs?
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2011, 08:55:36 AM »
I will notch votes for Merion and Stonewall.   Doesnt Philadelphia Cricket tecnically have another 9 in addition to the 36?

Mark
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jonathan_becker

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Re: Best 36-hole private clubs?
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2011, 09:00:26 AM »
Royal Portrush

After a few years of reading this site, I know that when I make my trip over there I need to play the Valley Links as well.
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Joe Bausch

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Re: Best 36-hole private clubs?
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2011, 09:01:42 AM »
Quote from: Mark McKeever on April 13, 2011, 08:55:36 AM
Doesnt Philadelphia Cricket tecnically have another 9 in addition to the 36?


Good point!  I totally forgot about their St. Martin's nine (although it is not located at the Flourtown site).
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Jim Colton

Re: Best 36-hole private clubs?
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2011, 09:02:38 AM »
Quote from: Bill_McBride on April 13, 2011, 08:21:30 AM
Olympia Fields doesn't get a shout from the Chicago guy?  Or Medinah? (36+ there I know)

Olympic Club another, Merion too.

Bill,

  Yeah I blanked on Olympia Fields. My only excuse was it was 4:30 in the morning.

  The ones not previously mentioned that are in Tom D's Confidential Guide:


Baltusrol
The Berkshire
Oak Hill
Ballybunion
Kasumigaseki
Vintage Club
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JR Potts

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Re: Best 36-hole private clubs?
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2011, 09:05:14 AM »
LACC.
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Tim Martin

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Re: Best 36-hole private clubs?
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2011, 09:06:59 AM »
Westchester Country Club has two Walter Travis layouts.
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Mark Pearce

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Re: Best 36-hole private clubs?
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2011, 09:13:04 AM »
Jim,

Scott did mention The Berkshire.  I've only played one of the courses at Olympia Fields but that has the feel of a great club, so certainly needs to be in this conversation.
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Carl Nichols

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Re: Best 36-hole private clubs?
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2011, 09:15:52 AM »
Congressional
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Matt_Ward

Re: Best 36-hole private clubs?
« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2011, 09:23:55 AM »
You can throw in Whisper Rock (AZ) too. The original 18 there gets little attention and frankly deserves a good bit more.

Although I am not a fan of it -- Champions has 36 holes too.

In my backyard one needs to mention Montclair GC -- hosted the '85 US Amateur.

Red Sky Ranch in CO deserves mention -- the Norman course there especially.

In regards to the #1 position in the USA -- nothing can beat what Winged Foot provides -- the West can match any other layout such as Merion East but no facility in America has as good a second 18 the East at WF.
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JNC Lyon

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Re: Best 36-hole private clubs?
« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2011, 09:25:31 AM »
Of course, I am biased with regard to Oak Hill.  This club has the perfect balance between the great championship test on the East and the real Ross charm on the West.  Oak Hill has no tee times for member groups, and one course is almost always available for play during an outing (the only exception is the Member-Guest, where both courses are completely occupied for half of a day).  A great 36-hole club lends itself to flexibility in the challenges between the golf courses and flexibility in when members can play golf.  Despite the challenge of the East, it is still a great course to play in the early evening, walking and carrying your clubs.  Oh, and by the way, golfers can carry, take a three-wheeler, take a caddy, or ride a cart on either course at any time.
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JNC Lyon

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Re: Best 36-hole private clubs?
« Reply #16 on: April 13, 2011, 09:27:24 AM »
Regarding Winged Foot, I'm curious as to how well the two layouts complement each other there.  Is the East a good counterpart to the bearlike West Course?  From what I have heard, the East is a damn good golf course but also a very difficult layout.  I would prefer something like Oak Hill or Merion, where one course is a stiff test and the other is more relaxed.
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jim_lewis

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Re: Best 36-hole private clubs?
« Reply #17 on: April 13, 2011, 09:27:56 AM »
About 4 years ago only 3 private clubs in the US had two courses ranked in the GOLFWEEK top 100's. Winged Foot and Baltusrol had both courses in the Classic top 100 and Forest Creek had both in the Modern top 100. Both Forest Creek courses are now in GOLFWEEK's second 100 Modern. The courses haven't changed, may be even better. Competition has increased with the opening of more excellent courses, and they probably tend to compete with each other.
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Sean_A

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Re: Best 36-hole private clubs?
« Reply #18 on: April 13, 2011, 09:30:16 AM »
Quote from: jonathan_becker on April 13, 2011, 09:00:26 AM
Royal Portrush

After a few years of reading this site, I know that when I make my trip over there I need to play the Valley Links as well.

I haven't seen some of the American choices and ffor sure they are gooduns...for parkland courses.  The best I have seen with the most dynamic difference in course styles, but both still of a very high quality - Portrush.  Saunton too deserves a mention.

Although, do folks think the club itself should have any influence in this?  You know, history, ambience, snobbery - the whole deal.   

Ciao
« Last Edit: April 13, 2011, 09:35:46 AM by Sean Arble »
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Matt_Ward

Re: Best 36-hole private clubs?
« Reply #19 on: April 13, 2011, 09:39:00 AM »
JNC:

The West is the more demanding driving course and minus proper length the approach shots you play on big brother are simply testing to the max.

The East has some marvelous greens and provides a somewhat "lite" version. That doesn't mean e-z or formulaic by any means -- well crafted greens for the entire 36-holes and as I said - the best combined 36-hole complex I have played in the States.

I would not characterize the East as relaxed -- just a solid layout with less of the overall intensity. A big time credit to the East for annually holding the Anderson Invitational -- one of the country's best four-ball events.
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Cliff Hamm

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Re: Best 36-hole private clubs?
« Reply #20 on: April 13, 2011, 09:43:30 AM »
I do think it is hard to beat Baltusrol.  To me it is not a measure of the two best courses at one club but are they of high quality and equally important different.  Baltusrol meets both criteria, as it sounds like Oak Hill also does.  The Upper is hilly in spots, tremendous greens, sporty, etc.  The Lower is a brute, long with relatively flat greens.  What other club, with the possible exception of Oak Hill, can offer such variety at such a high level?

BTW no mention of Trump - Bedminister?
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Matt_Ward

Re: Best 36-hole private clubs?
« Reply #21 on: April 13, 2011, 09:53:00 AM »
Cliff:

You must have missed my post -- head across the Hudson and you can see the obvious answer --

WINGED FOOT !

Baltusrol is a fine choice but can't hold the collective caliber of WF.

Good call on TN -- solid layout there too.
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Ronald Montesano

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Re: Best 36-hole private clubs?
« Reply #22 on: April 13, 2011, 09:53:46 AM »
Cliff,

I've heard this said of Devil's Pulpit in Caledon, Ontario, north of Toronto.
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Chris Cupit

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Re: Best 36-hole private clubs?
« Reply #23 on: April 13, 2011, 10:07:14 AM »
I certainly vote for Winged Foot.  I think Baltusrol and Oak Hill are terrific but for 36 outstanding holes I think Winged Foot is simply untouchable.  It may have the eight best par threes I have ever seen.  All of those holes are just outstanding and unique:

#3 East--145 yards nestled into a little rock shelf with a magnificent and maddening green
#6 East--190 yards of all carry to a deceptively simple looking round green.  I normally am not a huge fan of raised back bunkers but these are terrific.  Right tree looming to catch a weak shot to the right and possibly even hurl it out of bounds!
#13--Great angled green running away from you perched up high with a massive front right bunker, death down the hill long and left and a very tricky green with lots of internal movement
#17 East--Easiset par 5 on the course!  Not a single bunker--just a great green begging to be approached along the ground. 

#3 West--the single file chute that Billy Casper "laid up" to every day in '59
#7 West-another perched green but completely different than on the East.  Massive bunkers--didn't Johnny "I've never missed a shot" Miller make a 7 here in 1974?
#10 West--What more can be said? 
#13 West--White Mule may be the most under rated of the eight but just another terrific test of iron play and putting.

FWIW at least when I played in the event the Anderson would play 18 holes of stroke play on the east and 18 holes on the west and the match play portion of the event alternated courses every year. 

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Chris Roselle

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Re: Best 36-hole private clubs?
« Reply #24 on: April 13, 2011, 10:12:42 AM »
Atlanta Athletic Club has got to be at or near the top of the list.....And can we include Saucon Valley and just pick any two of the three championship courses they have on their property...
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